To think that lots of men think this way

[Flynnshine]

Recently a good friend of my partners has split from his wife of 15 years, they have two young children between 10 and 13.
The husband has decided he isn't happy and wants to end the relationship.

Last week he came over to our house in the evening and I left him and my husband chatting in the living room. I wasn't eavesdropping but I was only in the next room so could hear their conversation. Basically the husband has been planning this split for a while, 6 months before he announced he wanted to end things he sold their beautiful big house and they moved into their much smaller starter home which they had out on rent - they moved the kids out of their private school education and into a state school local to their new home.

They've always had a very comfortable life, beautiful house, nice cars and very fancy holidays a few times a year. They both had good jobs when they first met but when the children came along the wife stopped work and dedicated her life to them. They've done amazingly well at school, both top of their classes, sporty and do two sports for their local borough. They are polite and thoughtful and genuinely lovely children.

The conversation I overheard was the husband complaining that even though the wife hasn't paid towards the mortgage for over 10 years she will still be entitled to half of what the house is worth - he seemed bitter and angry and said he'd been hiding money for ages so she wouldn't get anything when they divorce. He's even planning on quitting his job and becoming self employed so he can fudge his earnings so his maintenance payments could be less. My husband was agreeing with him, I don't know if just to placate him or if that's really how he feels!

This man honestly thinks that because he has been working and paying a mortgage that his worth is so much more. He thinks he has enabled her to not work for over 10 years and that she has been having a jolly all that time. It's like he gives zero shits that he has two wonderful children that he has never had to lift a finger for and she has given her all to those children while he reaps the rewards of that.

Do all men deep down think like this, even if they won't openly admit it? Is money really the be all and end all of everything!?

UserMe18
Refrerance your comment to @Smotheroffive

So it's worked out well for you, that's great, but it's not the same for everyone!

Kids will be fine if loved. Loved at home & attending childcare where they’re stimulated etc isn’t bad. A SAHM giving up career & sacrificing salary & progression deserves remuneration for that. She’s well n truly screwed in the event of a break up otherwise. Raising kids is HARD work! I work part time but know my time at home is much harder than that expected of me at work. My husband & I do the same job. She should get more than the Hubbie in the event of a break up. She’s worked harder & sacrificed more & her sacrifice decreases her ability to bring her own money in for the rest of her life.

Why do women need to work and earn money to be of true value? What needs to change is the value placed upon raising children. Somebody has to do it- and it is a worthwhile job. The problem we have have is that this society views it has as a low worth task- hence childcare workers are so low paid and undervalued.

You see, when women post ‘my dh earns in an hour what I’d earn in a day’ my first question is: how did this come about?

Hubanmao, you know how that comes about! Women are fertile from teens to 40, roughly. By the time I have done my education, degree and postgrad I am already well into my twenties. I don’t have children yet and start building career which all things being well is good going by mid-thirties, fourties. By then my fertility is waning. I will be lucky to fall pregnant easily, have healthy children and straightforward labours in my late thirties and especially so, forties. Men do not have any such restrictions. They can steam ahead into their thirties and forties, amass resources and start a family when they are well jolly ready, even if it is 50 like someone in my family. A woman would have long missed the boat at fifty.

Our biological imperatives as females are at odds with the societal order. Not to mention the fact that women often partner up with older men who are more career advanced etc.

All well documented and researched. Structural inequality. Takes a bit more than one woman’s determination to overturn that.

My ex-h did this to me when I had a two year old who was going through assessment for ASD. The way he treated me has scarred me for life. There was an OW. I was dependent on him financially because of our DS and he took full advantage of that. I couldn't afford a solicitor but I took him to court myself and won 100% of the marital assets. An unusual outcome but it was complicated and his attempts to leave me with nothing failed. The law is the law when it comes to division of assets and this twat is a fool if he thinks he can pull the wool over the eyes of the court. OP, please tell your friend what you know and please ensure she has really good legal representation.

I think this man's selfishness is apparent in the fact that he had taken his kids out of a school they were happy at just to save money for the impending divorce. Sounds like the worst kind of asshat. I'd be more concerned by your husband agreeing with him. Interestingly, NZ law has recently been changed so that the female partner doesn't automatically get half of everything. It now takes into account both partners' potential earnings and financial assets that they brought into the relationship. It's a more accurate way to deal with contemporary relationships, but it's still hard to quantify the contribution of the partner who took time out of their career to care for children or elderly relatives.

I think it depends on how much the husband contributes to the upbringing of your children - for example - organising school trips payments, after school payments, dinner money, taking to them to said clubs and or picking them up, organising parties, being involved in homework and their lives in general!!
For me, I was successful before children but decided to return to work when my youngest started school - this meant 7 years away from the workplace.
I did this as my husband worked away and I was in the fortunate position to be able to be at home with my children. I don’t regret that at all.
What this means now is my husband works away and is very successful in his career and provides over and above financially.
What this means for me is I am juggling a part time job in a much reduced capacity to what I was before, with minimal career progression along with managing the kids and home while he is away.

Fresta
Yes this!
Why is caring work so undervalued. It was women who nursed older relatives, who are now too busy working!
Hence we have a crisis in old age care work!!
So undervalued until the shit hits the fan, then everyone wants to know who's going to do it??

It's not just about young kids!

Is hubby going to give up work to look after his mum??

something many people don't take into account is that you need to have more flexibility when your children start school than when they're tiny. Organisations often offer more flexibility to staff who have proved themselves or are more senior....it's actually very hard to walk into a flexible role. Another thing to consider if you're giving up work while you're children are small but plan to return when they start school.

To answer your question smother the above applies to me and DH. We're afforded a huge amount of flexibility which allows us to cover emergencies and holidays with no issues as well as never missing a school event.

This is an issue with our society , not an isolated case of men and women.

@whatsupapp and the other poster that talk about valuing raising children and elderly parents, yes absolutely it is worthwhile and very important, but it is NOT a woman's job.

Back to the premise of the thread, I do think the example is an outlier as I know very few/no women that do absolutely no paid work by the time their children are 10 and 13. Very few men earn enough for the big house, school fees, holidays this woman enjoyed with no financial input from the wife. I would say with school age children most women are working at least part time and that the extra money they bring in is usually essential.

I do think if the partner of my school age children wasn't working at all, I would think they were fairly indulged and cut off from reality. In the real world, most women work. They don't always have stellar careers, but they do work, the set up presented by the OP is suspiciously binary when real life is usually far more shades of grey.

UserMe18
That's your individual experience!
You can't use it as a precedent for people experiencing all sorts of different circumstances!

@BlaaBlaaBlaa yes absolutely, this is what's happened to me. I am afforded a lot of flexibility in my role vs where I was 5 years ago, my youngest has just started school, those I know who are now going back into work are having to take on much more rigid roles starting from a lower point.

@whatsupapp I haven't? I'm just trying to say the swathing generalisations being made here (that I see over and over again) "men are lazy" "he earns more than me" yadde yadde are not things to believe or live by.

OMG he sounds awful.

I hope she gets at least 50% of everything and that the court find out that he has tried to conceal his finances and fine him for it.

I hope he also has to take responsibility for the children for 50% of the time that they are on school holidays and are ill. Maybe then he will realise what a monumental twat he is.

I hope no new woman is suckered into starting a relationship with this man at any point (I doubt he shows this awful chauvinistic side of himself early on in relationships)

What a bastard

I think men do have restrictions when it comes to having children
yes they can father children in their 50s but that means they have to attract a younger woman who is willing to combine old man sperm with her young healthy eggs

Why would she do that when she could be with a younger man?

UserMe18
But maybe it's not a swathing generalisation, a lot of women end up worse off, and maybe we need to be educating our daughters!
I guess you don't have a daughter!
I'm sorry but I've 4 brothers and none of them want kids , commitment, etc etc. And my mother encourages them to look after their interests!

A lot of careers are just incompatible with having and caring for your children well because the hours are just too long or they involve last minute travel etc. I think few people would be hapy for their child to essentially be raised by a herd of nannies. So in those cases one person will need to give up their career (obviously they could still do some form of work but they'd have given up a lucrative career) to enable the other to continue.

In most of the couples I know (and I know these are mainly people who are very well educated and are working in intellectually stimulating jobs which come with respect and kudos etc not people working three thankless jobs on zero hour contracts) both parties would have preferred to be the one to be the main wage earner. They've worked hard to establish careers and giving that up to be the housekeeper isn't exactly a dream scenario.

They absolutely should be financially compensated in the event of a divorce.

"whatsupapp* my brothers are the opposite. Family men who actively sought out commitment and couldn't wait to start a family.....

My DH was the same. He has 3 sisters and they were all brought up the same and all carried out household chores growing up. If my PILs thought my DH wasn't pulling his weight they would come down on him like a ton of bricks....as would his sisters. There are men out there who actually respect women.

It’s time for women to take control of family finances or at least set up spreadsheets and know where every penny is saved and spent. And ask questions and demand to know.

I earn less than a third of dhs wage but I can tell you how much our assets and debts are worth/cost. I know every log on and password for both his and my accounts.

It’s no use hiding behind the excuse that you don’t do ‘figures’. If you’re going to let yourself become clueless then you will be taken advantage of.

If you’re going to get married you might as well join finances, it all gets added up and divided out in a divorce. I’d be suspicious if my dh his anything from me and would make it known!

If you’ve got a dh who won’t change a nappy and doesn’t value child rearing because he’s never had to do it, this attitude is not wholly unexpected. Women who find themselves in these kinds of divorce situations have imo ignored dozens of red flags indicating their partners have little respect for them, but still end up totally dependent on them. I know one who has no clue how much her husband earns and who just gives her house keeping and spending money. He treats her like a domestic servant and has high expectations of what she should be doing at home all day. She puts up with it because she likes the lifestyle. Personally I reckon she’s in for a rude shock one day, her dh is a just the sort to do this to her, but there’s none so blind as those who don’t want to see.

dh had a friend who would rather go off sick than pay maintenance to his ex