To think that lots of men think this way

[Flynnshine]

Recently a good friend of my partners has split from his wife of 15 years, they have two young children between 10 and 13.
The husband has decided he isn't happy and wants to end the relationship.

Last week he came over to our house in the evening and I left him and my husband chatting in the living room. I wasn't eavesdropping but I was only in the next room so could hear their conversation. Basically the husband has been planning this split for a while, 6 months before he announced he wanted to end things he sold their beautiful big house and they moved into their much smaller starter home which they had out on rent - they moved the kids out of their private school education and into a state school local to their new home.

They've always had a very comfortable life, beautiful house, nice cars and very fancy holidays a few times a year. They both had good jobs when they first met but when the children came along the wife stopped work and dedicated her life to them. They've done amazingly well at school, both top of their classes, sporty and do two sports for their local borough. They are polite and thoughtful and genuinely lovely children.

The conversation I overheard was the husband complaining that even though the wife hasn't paid towards the mortgage for over 10 years she will still be entitled to half of what the house is worth - he seemed bitter and angry and said he'd been hiding money for ages so she wouldn't get anything when they divorce. He's even planning on quitting his job and becoming self employed so he can fudge his earnings so his maintenance payments could be less. My husband was agreeing with him, I don't know if just to placate him or if that's really how he feels!

This man honestly thinks that because he has been working and paying a mortgage that his worth is so much more. He thinks he has enabled her to not work for over 10 years and that she has been having a jolly all that time. It's like he gives zero shits that he has two wonderful children that he has never had to lift a finger for and she has given her all to those children while he reaps the rewards of that.

Do all men deep down think like this, even if they won't openly admit it? Is money really the be all and end all of everything!?

Whose interests were you taught to look out for whatsupapp ?

I can see a really strong argument for a contract pre children. That identifies who get what in case of separation. Like a pre-nup.

I would want 50% of all material assets plus 50% of savings and pension at point of divorce. With some compensation for a period of time to allow me to fully build up my career.

Plus 50:50 split in the cost of raising the kids from that point on.

Plus I work. I do value the caring role but for lots of reasons chose to return to work after the kids were born. Not least because of how vulnerable financial dependence makes you.

Million- I had 3 children, first at 29, next two in my early 30s. Returned to work after maternity leave. First time round dd was 3 months old (this was back when ML was much shorter.) Paid for all our childcare (no wider family nearby and no free childcare hours back then either.) By dc 3 that meant the equivalent of my income was all going on childcare. Kept working for the long term benefits. Oh and I was a long term breastfeeder too. Dh and I shared everything we could from the get go. I never assumed that he was less capable in the home than I was. And frankly, if his hoovering wasn’t quite as thorough as mine or he occasionally put dd’s jumper on inside out- so what? Life’s really too short to agonise over that.

I’m not suggesting everyone should do what I did- we’re all different.

What I am saying is that we all make choices, and frankly if what we did was possible almost 30 years ago when maternity leave was so much shorter, paternity leave non existant, and shared parental leave was only a distant dream - then it’s certainly possible now.

If a couple don’t want to share things like this, and prefer to have mum giving up work and dad being sole earner then that’s a perfectly valid choice, but it seems a bit odd to then complain about all the sacrifices you’ve made.

BlaaBlaaBlaa

Excellent, good for them!
I'm not arguing that there aren't men like that! But they are few!

Hubanmao

And if you'd been made redundant??

Hubanmao
Which both me and my husband were , within 2 months of each other???

No. Thankfully the attitudes you are describing are beginning to die out.
We shouldn't be commending something that is normal for many families.

I was once told how lucky I was that my husband did so much. I responded that I wasn't lucky. I was sensible enough not to marry a misogynistic twat ( I worded it a little more politely than that but you get the idea!!)

not read the full thread but my now ex deffo thought like that. I'd worked before the children arrived, and we both agreed that I'd stay home and look after the children and everything.I did go back part time eventually. The job he had often entailed very long hours and trips away and they were sometimes at short notice and took longer than initially intended. He was able to do it because he never had to worry about childcare, or anything round the house, and had I gone back to work childcare would have left us no better off. Instead I reduced costs, made do and mended, did diy, helped us live debt free. There came the time when I'd have loved to have retrained for a new career, but same issues. I did get back to work as the children grew, OK, part time. I still did everything, in fact he cut down on the little he did
By this time he was actually on a very good salary with a good pension. When he left me he fought against me having a share of all the assets. But it was accepted that the contribution I'd made was as significant as his. He suddenly said that I should be able to find a job at nearly 60, that paid as much as his, despite having come down with several physical and mental ailments [mostly caused by him if truth be told].

If I had my time again, I'd have called it a day the first time he was abusive, but I am where I am. I deffo contributed more than my share by not doing things that otherwise I'd have been working to pay for

Whatsupapp- looked for another job. Happened to dh when the kids were young. That was tough.

All the women self congratulating on their wise choice of partner, consider that you picked a man that wasn't faking it, and that other women haven't been so lucky.

Fucket
I'm no idiot. And I am actively looking for work.
My husband shares the domestic duties. He's done half his share!
I still can't get a job!
I want to work! but I can not get childcare for after school!!
I'm bright, I've experience, but I need childcare after school!
I don't need to work...husband earns a lot! But I WANT TO!
Nanny I guess next??

I just can’t get my head around people not working 50:50 on childcare and household jobs where both partners work. Don’t you just liaise who is covering holidays, when a child is sick who is in the best position to wfh or take time off? Who is likely to finish earlier to do pick ups. Do people really think their partner is incapable of cooking/cleaning etc? Do people not talk to their other halves? If DH tried to pull any of that shit on me, he’d get his arse handed to him on a plate.

One partner can only get away with not stepping up to the plate if it’s not challenged

Millionscarletroses- if you didn’t want to use childcare and chose to give up your career rather than your husband doing so, then presumably you’re happy with your set up. Which makes me wonder why you seemed so scathing about men’s abilities in your earlier posts

Hubanmao, you haven’t read my posts carefully. I continued working FT after my first child and my DH was SAHD for 2 years. Unfortunately, he didn’t do what I do now being a SAHM. And he only had one child to look after. The running the house bit was shall we say substandard and he made no attempt to take the mental load off me and onto himself. He didn’t learn to cook even then. So I was working, still up with the baby, still breastfeeding and doing housework/cooking. That was no good and I eventually grew some balls and told him he had to get a job because I was not getting a good deal.

So my DH did have a crack of the whip being SAHD. But he only did what maybe 30% of what I do now. And I have three children to look after, not one.

I did work FT while being a parent and I know that you haven’t the same mental or physical energy for your kids after doing a full day’s work. There is little time in the evening and the parent is knackered. The weekends are spent playing catch up for everything. Please don’t tell me it makes no difference bringing up kids whether you spread yourself thin with work or have the time and space to dedicate to them being SAHM. I have lived both realities and it is not the same at all. Indeed, women at work who were honest enough would admit they hardly saw their DC in the working week: collect from nursery, bath and bed was the typical workday routine. No it is not the same at all. My second and third were with me in the day after I left work. I had time and energy to talk to them, play with them, take them for a walk in the daylight. Now they are at school, I can collect them at 3.15pm and they have got the rest of the day to play at home/go to activities/ do extra learning. How is that the same? Working mothers are running like headless chickens most of the time chasing their own tail and never catching it. I lived it. Don’t try and tell me it is anything other than that. Big kudos to them being a superwoman, but I am pass.

So working didn’t work out for you, Million.
Tbh the main reason for that seems to be what you admit yourself... you partnered a man who didn’t step up and share the load.

Just don’t extrapolate from that, that everyone else’s marriages are like that. Or that all families where both parents work have unhappy, neglected children who grow up with all sorts of issues. I have 3 very happy well adjusted adult children. In fact when I look at their friends, you wouldn’t be able to tell which ones had WOHP or SAHP. They have happy successful friends of both

My point is, Hubsnmao, very few men do step up enough. The majority think they are the husband of the year, but in reality do hardly anything or carry any mental load. Indeed they are unsuspecting how much their female partner has to do every day and the amount of stuff she has to sort out. I am happy for the women who managed to partner men who truly share the work at home/with children. I don’t know any such cases. Some do a bit more at home, some a bit less, but never genuinely, truly 50%. So us women, we either do ourselves in trying to be everything to everyone, get somebody else to bring our kids up in order to free enough of our headspace and time to build a career, or sacrifice our personal career aspirations to give the family better quality of life.

Or keep searching for the unicorn husband who will be a true partner with domestic stuff/kids and not an asshat either. Mind, you’d better find him by 40 or you risk not having a family at all.

Sounds like you’ve had an unlucky experience with men tbh.

But do give over with the crap about WOHP getting other people to bring their kids up; it just makes you sound bitter.

I am not bitter, I am purely realistic. I know enough families closely enough where both partners have careers and typically it IS somebody else bringing the kids up. A nanny most often. Mothers are human and got finite amount of mental and physical resources. Same as fathers, really. But then I am sure those career mothers think it is them and not the nanny bringing the kids up, despite them hardly seeing the offspring. Depends what it means to an individual bringing up children, doesn’t it?

Sorry million that you are getting such a hard time. I am impressed by what you've done, and despite the ideologies and the minority that do have equality, I don't think your story is uncommon at all.

...andi hate that some women think they can control their men in his way, instead of them just being reasonably decent people and are happy to blame other women for their partners shit behaviour!

Its quite shocking to read actually

Id be advising her quietly to get a forensic accountant involved. My aunt's currently doing the same as my prick of an uncles trying to swindle her in their divorce after his affair.

If your a SAHM to school age children your partner will probably resent you to a certain degree.
After all once the kids are at school that's a lot of free time and if your partner is up early working long hours to cover all this then it's easy to see why the resentment builds up.

Ops freind should bill ex husband

1. Carrying his children
2. Full time child care
3. Housekeeping
4. Cook
5. Ex personal secretary/ assistant
6. Gardner
7. Everytime she's DTD

I think he may start to realise what a bargain his wife is and that she is more than just a stay at home mum. Good on you op I hope you tell your freind

7. Everytime she's DTD

You are advocating billing the husband for everytime she had sex with him? Do you really consider marriage to be the same as prostitution? Do you have no concept that women can enjoy sex? That is tragic.

1. Carrying his children - so she didn't want them and was a surrogate?
2. Full time child care - it's not childcare, she's parenting her own child
3. Housekeeping - looking after her own home as adults do
4. Cook - so she doesn't need to eat
5. Ex personal secretary/ assistant - house admin is just his?
6. Gardner - idiot housekeeping
7. Everytime she's DTD - so she didn't enjoy sex and did it for the money? Really?

Making out SAHPs are the equivalent to staff is just nonsense. They just do what all other parents do with the luxury of not having to work. They have the far easier option by far.

Does he get to reclaim his salary back then from her in the basis of your theory? After all she didn't earn it and he had to pay for her every need.

"Career mothers"
I think that phrase says it all @MillionScarletRoses - if you say this you are really thinking that it's about women going back for a 'career' instead of as it is for many, to keep a roof over everyone's heads, especially in the case that their partner is in any way unable (or unwilling) to contribute in future.