To think that lots of men think this way

[Flynnshine]

Recently a good friend of my partners has split from his wife of 15 years, they have two young children between 10 and 13.
The husband has decided he isn't happy and wants to end the relationship.

Last week he came over to our house in the evening and I left him and my husband chatting in the living room. I wasn't eavesdropping but I was only in the next room so could hear their conversation. Basically the husband has been planning this split for a while, 6 months before he announced he wanted to end things he sold their beautiful big house and they moved into their much smaller starter home which they had out on rent - they moved the kids out of their private school education and into a state school local to their new home.

They've always had a very comfortable life, beautiful house, nice cars and very fancy holidays a few times a year. They both had good jobs when they first met but when the children came along the wife stopped work and dedicated her life to them. They've done amazingly well at school, both top of their classes, sporty and do two sports for their local borough. They are polite and thoughtful and genuinely lovely children.

The conversation I overheard was the husband complaining that even though the wife hasn't paid towards the mortgage for over 10 years she will still be entitled to half of what the house is worth - he seemed bitter and angry and said he'd been hiding money for ages so she wouldn't get anything when they divorce. He's even planning on quitting his job and becoming self employed so he can fudge his earnings so his maintenance payments could be less. My husband was agreeing with him, I don't know if just to placate him or if that's really how he feels!

This man honestly thinks that because he has been working and paying a mortgage that his worth is so much more. He thinks he has enabled her to not work for over 10 years and that she has been having a jolly all that time. It's like he gives zero shits that he has two wonderful children that he has never had to lift a finger for and she has given her all to those children while he reaps the rewards of that.

Do all men deep down think like this, even if they won't openly admit it? Is money really the be all and end all of everything!?

Those high earning ladies with SAH DH who think they are no better off than having a cleaner and a nanny, I take it you pay your SAH DH those combined wages into his account every month? And extra for late pick ups for working late, overnight when your DC is sick with vomiting bug, but you need your sleep for your demanding job the next day? Do you pay him extra for cooking duties as it’s not a nanny’s or cleaner’s job?

Thought not.

No way in hell would I stay at home and make your life easy if that was your attitude. I would deliberately go out and work, even stacking shelves for very little and MAKE you get home, do the cooking, do the laundry, the shopping, the school play costumes, up in the night when DC are ill AFTER your demanding job in the evening, 50% of the week. Maybe then it will sink in what your spouse contributes, but I do not hold much hope.

@Flynnshine I used breakfast clubs, after school clubs and convinced them they 'loved' whatever sport/ club it was... I called in favours and helped others in return. I sometimes had to say ' I can't' and spent holidays exhausted and ill ( I was a teacher)

All this was made more difficult when my son was seriously ill- he was sectioned and eventually put in a forensic psych unit a three hundred plus trip away which I drove everyone to for an HOUR twice a week..... for two years!

Looking back I don't know how I did it.

@MillionScarletRoses I would deliberately go out and work, even stacking shelves for very little and MAKE you get home, do the cooking, do the laundry, the shopping, the school play costumes, up in the night when DC are ill AFTER your demanding job in the evening, 50% of the week. Maybe then it will sink in what your spouse contributes, but I do not hold much hope.

But as a wohp I did do all of those things, including the overnights you mention, and we paid for cleaner. Same for many other wives of SAHDs. Same, for that matter, as parents where both work.

I've been the SAHM and the sole earner, and personally would much prefer to be a SAHM, and also think it is very good for kids. However I also think that many SAHPs massively overestimate the value of 'enabling'. The only thing an sahp does that a wohp does not have to do is the daytime childcare (and associated cleaning etc). This can absolutely have a price put on it, as it's the same amount we now pay for a nanny. It is far less than 50% of my income or of our shared assets.

@Stuckforthefourthtime and what about pensions? Career development? They are essentially sacrificed that might not to be a concern to some, but it will be for others, and the working partner IF as I have said earlier agreed on this arrangement, they have to take responsibility for that if the marriages breakdown.

As for your other point, I wouldn't want to stay home for toffee, and I disagree that it's good for kids, I don't think a child with a SAHP has any benefits over my children who are seeing both parents chase careers fairly balancing home life, I'm not saying we are better, but certainly not less. Compete derail but can never resist responding to such comments about what's "best". The point to my whole post, you can't generalise on any of this stuff, every family is individual, you have your own experience but that doesn't mean it can be applied to all families. Yes some parents may abuse SAH but there are a lot of WOHP that take advantage of those at home.

Do all men deep down think like this, even if they won't openly admit it? Is money really the be all and end all of everything!?

Oh absolutely we do. Save every penny, put shit petrol in the wide's old banger. Kids can wear 2nd hand clothes. Make-up? Fuck that. It's all my money, I earn it while she's watching TV all day, not like the kids are a handful. Cleaning? Well that's a woman's job along with cooking, she should be bloody grateful I bought her knives and a mop.

Sarcasm off

No, we don't. Men like this disgust me @Flynnshine

A friend of mine today told me she was splitting and her husband being very difficult about the mortgage and school fees. When I told my husband his view was “well, why should he pay?” - although he did say if it had been the man’s decision to leave then yes, he should pay. I’m still fuming tbh

Some men do think like this and it’s frankly ridiculous. They do not value or have any understanding at all of what is involved in being the primary carer for the children and running the house. Would they have let their careers suffer to accommodate paternity leave, school holidays, days when the kids are sick?
The statistics speak for themselves, hardly any men are taking up the new parental leave option.
And let’s not pretend that it’s ok for children to be in endless childcare from a young age. Some families prefer and decide it’s better for the children to have a parent around.
The undervaluing of tradional women’s roles in society is causing many problems including a crisis in social care

I am currently that wife - stay at home mother of 2 children (4 and 9) and currently working on number 3. Inhavent worked for nearly 10 years and mu husband pays for everything.
I hope to god that he doesn't feel like this deep down.
If he did my argument would be that; no I haven't worked or contributed to our finances BUT in have given him 3 beautiful boys, kept his home, cooked all his meals. Not only that but me being st home with the children meant that he never had to worry about us holding him back in his career. So far he's done soo well with his company and he loves his job. It's only going to get better from here for him!
Could he say the same if he was half responsible for the care of our children bc I worked?! Probably not!
Personally; I don't think stay at home wives/mothers are appreciated enough by all! I suppose it's a very old fashioned way of living but - ing opinion - the benefits outweigh the negatives.

Tell her

even though the wife hasn't paid towards the mortgage for over 10 years she will still be entitled to half of what the house is worth - he seemed bitter and angry and said he'd been hiding money for ages so she wouldn't get anything when they divorce

my father felt like this. My mother worked part-time which was rare enough in those days but he still felt she didn't contribute and he hid money. Even easier to do now with everything being online rather than bank statements coming to the house.

What makes me laugh on here are all the "he left her now her life is screwed up because of him" comments.
No it just means she will have to get a job and support herself like most adults do.

Not all men think like this. But I am convinced a friends ex did precisely what you described - planned it and salted money away.

Sorry haven't read full thread. In divorce cases, it doesn't really matter what he thinks, it matters what the judge decides. It's actually very difficult to hide money and if a judge considers the downsizing etc an orchestration to hide his wealth, he won't have a hope of holding onto more than 50% of it.

Also, if friend goes SE, then the wife can instruct a full audit of his books if she's suspicious, and the odds are if he's hiding money, then HMRC will also want to know about it. He sounds very naive.

Stuck for the fourth time: But as a wohp I did do all of those things, including the overnights you mention, and we paid for cleaner. Same for many other wives of SAHDs. Same, for that matter, as parents where both work.

Did you do all these things while your DH stayed at home? So you worked two shifts effectively. Well, I have done that with SAH DH and this is why he is no longer SAHD, but WOHD. Because he didn’t make my life easy in the way I make his, but rather created a situation where I had to work round the clock. I soon rebelled as I neared a burnout. So off he goes to work and I look after the kids, the house and pretty much everything other than his work. He does appreciate it as I well bloody tell him what I have been doing all day. And it is shed loads of work with three children, a husband, a house, a garden + all life admin, organise and ferry kids to activities, do extra school work with them etc etc. My DH doesn’t need to even think what he will be having for dinner, it will be a healthy wholesome meal. He knows he will open the wardrobe and get clean ready to wear clothes out.

Yes it is a massive amount of work actually. And I make sure I tell him so, otherwise he will be of the opinion the fairies do it while I mope about all bored.

I worked FT in a demanding job and I know exactly how hard it is. I used to come to work for a rest!

Women who are doing it all (in the name of feminism or independence or whatever) are mugs. If my DH wants me back out WOH, there is no way on this Earth I will keep up my effort at the same level at home. He will find his dinners not cooked, clothes not washed and house not cleaned. As I have been at work all day and am now having my well-deserved rest.

Having a SAHW at home is light years away from having a nanny. You still have your mental load with the nanny, she needs organising, paying, worked around her holiday, you need to keep an eye on how she is performing in her job etc With a SAHW your mental load relating to anything house or kids, social calendar, holiday related is GONE. You are lighter, the headspace is free, you can think about work at work and relax when not at work. It is the quality of life SAHW is giving you, the peace of mind, the home comforts, health (good food, undisturbed sleep etc). It sure costs a darn sight more than any cleaner or nanny.

NAMALT so don't say AMALT !

No, not all men think this way. It's ridiculous to think so.
That's like saying all women are gold diggers.
Your husband's friend is entitled to his opinion, just as you are to yours.
I certainly wouldn't be having a go at my husband for his friends opinion, nor would I expect my husband to stop contact with his friend, that's silly.
I've known plenty of women who have taken their husband's to the cleaners, for no other reason than that they can, whether the man was at fault or not. These women tend to be greedy and spiteful I find.
I don't blame him for hiding away what he can.
Unpopular opinion I know, but like anyone else, I'm entitled to it.

I think your friend is better off a widow

OP I’m wondering why you can’t ask your husband about his response to this vile man? You seem defensive when you mention that you weren’t eavesdropping - you were in your own home and your husband was one of the people you overheard, its not as if you had a glass up to the wall listening to your neighbours!?
Going back to the question - I think some men would feel entitled to “their” earnings whilst putting 0% value on their wives and children: a revolting concept but true unfortunately. Equally though, I know a lot of women who are SAHMs who thrive of this position - meet up for coffee, yoga, volunteer at the school (yes, the alpha mum type), talk about their expensive skiing holidays and home renovations - two have said they love being SAHMs and chuckled about getting new dogs as this was “another excuse not to have to work” aha ha ha...

My exH thought exactly like this, as did his family. Luckily we were married and I had a good solicitor, which meant I got all I needed.

It really shocked me tbh. When we met we were equals in terms of career/salary etc and it was a completely joint decision for me to go part time then SAHM when the DC were tiny. I never realised I’d married my dad (he did exactly the same to my mum) until it was too late.

I don't think most men do think like this. This guy sounds terrible. You should tell the wife he said he had been hiding money. Don't worry, though, the laws here are extremely favourable to women in her position. As long as she can find the hidden money she will get half of it, plus maintenance and child support.

flowerpott - glad you wrote that - I thought surely this tactic is as old as the hills and he will be found out in seconds!

Even after divorce women still help men in their careers. The ex wife is still the built in childcare allowing the man to work freely. I know many women who have to reduce their hours, pay for breakfast club, after school club out their wages because they have the children for most of the week. Women who can’t find a job because they have to work around their children. The men don’t see it. They still feel hard done by because they pay maintenance. Thinking of ways to get around paying. I worked with a guy that always paid his bonus into his pension so his ex wouldn’t get it. He never saw it as money for his kids. He never saw that his wife worked full time and her parents enabled that. He was out most Fridays nights as contact started Saturday afternoon until Sunday at 5 every 2 weeks. He thought he was super dad.

I left my ex wife due to violence... I had the clothes on my back, didn't see my sons for months, was homeless, no bank account...(frozen...) lost both houses (I owned before I met her...)... so no, they dontvthink like that but...on hearing my story you may reflect on the fact they may not want to go down my path...

This breaks my heart.

A previously happy family, where the man's selfishness and resentment has led him to downsize their house, move the kids to different schools, and rewrite his version of their shared history to justify his desire to keep his precious money. At what cost!

I hope his kids see him for the scumbag he is one day. It's them I feel most sorry for. His wife can move on, get a job, meet someone else. His kids will always have to live with the fact that he screwed them all over for his selfish escape plan. They only get one biological dad.

I'm very doubtful that most men think this way. But, you know, the patriarchy and all that... There was a reason for feminism and women's emancipation. By being an SAHM, no matter how much it makes sense on so many levels, it's taking the risk of perpetuating the patriarchal system we've just broken free from.

It's why I've always stopped short of giving up work, even if it's almost killed me to manage alongside bringing up my gorgeous kids. I won't give up my independence. It's too big a gamble.

A lot of men do. And a lot of second partners deeply resent any money going to the “first” family. You only have to read many posts on here