To think people who have children are bonkers

[Ichabod2000]

I read threads like these: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3228427-to-ask-what-s-an-adult-problem-that-nobody-prepared-you-for, and a common theme is the crushing relentlessness and thanklessness of parenting (motherhood in particular).

Why do it? Really? It's largely a voluntary choice, and has a tangible negative impact on your time, finances, career, relationships, and often physical and mental health. Not to mention the huge negative impact overpopulation is having on our planet.

I understand people feel overwhelming love for their children, but this is after the fact - you don't feel overwhelming love for children that don't exist yet.

And people talk about how rewarding it is - but there are lots of rewarding things you can do that don't involve propagating your genes.

I'm at an age where people ask me about my plans for children, and I just can't objectively see an advantage to it. I have a brilliant DH, an interesting job that I enjoy, and plenty of free time and moolah. Why would I make the conscious decision to risk these things I have? Why do so many make that choice?

I think it's bananas, personally, and I wonder if its just me that doesn't get it?

I had my little boy in my early 40’s through IVF due to infertility issues.
I had a great career, was lucky enough to travel and had a fab social life. These days I don’t get out that much, travel is limited to kid friendly places, I work part time and can’t focus as much as I could before.
However, having a child is the most fulfilling experience I have ever had. I felt my life before was very self focused and a bit one dimensional. I would never change my life now for my life before.
You have to ready for children and to want to give rather than take. I’d just reached that point in my life.
It’s not unreasonable to feel differently and not want children but you can’t call people that have decided otherwise ‘bonkers’.

Same as pps, it was an urge to have a child. I work in childcare and knew it would be hard, but also felt more prepared because I work with children. Having had one I’m stopping there because with one once we were past 2yrs it all became much easier and now at 6 it’s mostly lovely. I can see for a fact that having another would negatively impact our life and, environmentally, I don’t feel comfortable bringing another life on the planet which is quite possibly buggered.

and we had many years without children to do what we wanted, when we wanted ............... but the post child years somehow seem more meaningful and fulfilling for me

Yes you have all your money to spend, all the time in the world, you do what you want- no one else to consider.

In reality very few childless people live like this, especially after our 20's and early 30's. We have responsibilities too. Mortgages and bills to pay. Elderly relatives to look out for. Work. It's not really all a fun packed life of drunken debauchery, flashy holidays and no money worries. But crack on with your generalisations if it makes you feel better. You are quick to say we don't understand your lives, but you really don't understand ours. You say you were childfree too...but then you had children. You never had to carve out a different life, without children, that you never thought you'd lead.

I lost a husband. I have several friends who haven't and yet they have the empathy and insight to understand what it might be like for me. We have the same empathy and insight to understand what having a child might be like.

@Leighhalfpennysthigh I just stopped cooking my roast dinner (for children who will largely be lacking in thanks for it) to say how utterly horrifying your reality is. How dare people even think of commenting. I don’t make assumptions about people who don’t have kids (my sister being one of them) and the OP is right on many points - it is (rationally speaking) an illogical choice to make - just the fact you can never stop worrying being one of the things that makes it feel like a life sentence. I don’t think I would change my choices (I have 4 DC - 2 with special needs that make for the most challenging, heartbreaking existence a lot of the time) but I accept that it is a fucking bizarre thing to do to yourself. I can only suggest I was biologically compelled. Maybe. Nevertheless, I am astounded and saddened that leighhalfpennysthigh has had to endure the cruel judgment they have having already suffered such tragedy. Staggered. Bloody people-folk.

Stop - you are the one that’s bonkers. Completely clueless.... I’ll just imagine what’s it like to be an astronaut then ... hang on just imagining. Yes simple. I’ll contact NASA now I know what it’s like in case they want my expert opinion on something! Ridiculous!! You do not know! Get over it!

Ha!! See, I’m your polar opposite then. I can’t for the life of me fathom why any woman WOULDN’T Want children.

However, sprawling houses, new cars, posh foreign holiday and “plenty of moolah” mean bugger all to me.

I have four children - two are 25 & 23 and then I had a massive gap, met my husband and had another two (5 & 6)
There is nothing quite as joyful as that first smile, those first steps, the giggles, those belly laughs, teaching them the way of the world, christmases....I could go on forever - knowing that you Did this, you created this human being with someone you love, it’s beyond anything else. You can keep your careers, being a mum is the best (worst paid) job in the world! Haha

On a side note, my youngest sister always said she didn’t want children, she and her husband had agreed that neither wanted any at all. My niece is just about to turn a year old - sometimes that biological clock really does tick loudly enough for you to want to listen :-)

I love being a mother but the world needs women like you to or we would be over populated.

I find it slightly more bizarre that you're on mumsnet

I suppose it is one of the best discussion forums, with a lot of traffic and not all chat is child focused.

Seems like an odd thing to post on MUMSnet. And I’m not sure if it’s a genuine question but for me also the primal urge. I’ve always wanted kids. I have 3 and I love them in a way I can’t even describe. I guess it’s primal too. They are infinitely incredible and I learn from them everyday. They fill me with joy in a way I never knew possible. With all that love and all that emotion it’s not surprising to also feel emotions on the other end of the scale. And there is a relentlessness to it but I’d take that any day over not having them. I think that it’s a shame for people who can’t or won’t have children because they’ll never get the chance to feel love like this.

Shame is obviously a really very shit word there for those who can’t. I don’t mean to be offensive.

@Ahardyfool thank you. It does seem, however, that I'm banging my head against a brick wall on this thread as no one really wants to hear from people like me.

Leigh - I feel completely sorry for you and others in the same situation. I for one would never make people feel bad about not having children and I do get people can be sympathetic and emphasise with something they have not directly experienced.

Stop - you are the one that’s bonkers. Completely clueless.... I’ll just imagine what’s it like to be an astronaut then ... hang on just imagining. Yes simple. I’ll contact NASA now I know what it’s like in case they want my expert opinion on something! Ridiculous!! You do not know! Get over it!

I think it is a bit different. None of us have any contact with astronauts or were mini astronauts ourselves. Whataboutery doesn't work.

Get over what? I have a ten year old. What I am saying is a fact of my experience. It is as simple as that.

Shame is obviously a really very shit word there for those who can’t. I don’t mean to be offensive

And yet, you are.

There's a long running thread on here somewhere about things not to say to childless women. I think some people need to look at it. You might then learn some empathy and understanding. You know, that thing women without children aren't supposed to have.

Leigh

I don't have kids and have never really wanted them anyhows. I personally don't understand the primal urge but I guess it's where you'd stop at nothing to meet that objective over rational thought I would guess. Which to my mind is sexual attraction in itself but being on the asexual spectrum so I guess maybe I don't have the same understanding.
I'll admit to being selfish over not having kids. It just does not appeal to me full stop.
I was very very thin in my twenties and had issues back then that now make me as sure as I can be that I can't have them anyways.
I would personally say to any women who doesn't want kids and is even in the tiniest bit thinks they can't for whatever reason just make it clear from the outset to any man. Sorts the wheat from the chaff.
The issue is that most men want kids and to a lot of men it's a deal breaker. I wonder how many women there are that have given in to men and had just to keep them. Hmm, a lot of things are excused by the word 'love'.

lisasimpsonsbff I agree with you 100%.

Mumsnet is about all sorts of things and is interesting for people who have children and those who don't. These comments about why child free people are on it are simply daft. I agree with you OP. I have 2 children, have tried so hard to do my best but I'm not sure it's enough. I worry constantly and with hindsight would not have had them. The planet is vastly overpopulated too and I wish I hadn't contributed to that.

Because what's life without family.

DC are hard work but bring unimaginable Joy and show you what love is.

Stop - yep, bonkers.

Just coz we were kids doesn’t mean we know what it’s like being the parent until you are one! Imagining something doesn’t mean you know. You imagine something based on the information you know. I didn’t know until I had mine. Yes I knew there would be babies involved and I needed to look after them but that was pretty much it and I had a niece that I looked after at times. It’s not something you can imagine.

If having children would cause you to lose your allegedly "brilliant DH" then he is obviously not that brilliant!

I see the things you describe...spare money and time...as being short-term gains, whereas the rewards of having children are clearly long-term gains (even if short-term it turns your life into a series of Tasks You Don't Want To Do).
I'm 32 and my first baby is 3 months old. Of course there are superficial things in my life I regret losing but I see these as temporary losses. For my particular career there is no reason why parenting should make it suffer.
I feel like long-term I would regret not having children. I see older people who don't have children and often see them trying to seek these parent-child-like relationships elsewhere. It is by and large a natural thing for most people to want children. In so many ways it keeps you young (even if it prematurely ages you in others :p ).

I do feel though that lots of people have children based on little more than a Pampers advert and so are very shocked when they actually have a real child to deal with...so they might feel like they suffer more.
I have worked for the past ten years with children aged 2-18...so am well aware that I am having a person, not just a baby, and have had to face many challenges that come with children of all ages head-on (although of course having your own is different, actually being aware will lessen some of the impact). I also read a lot about pregnancy and birth, and talked to a lot of people about their experiences, before having my child, so again felt very prepared and none of it has come as a terrible shock. I think it does make a difference.

People often give 'overpopulation' as a reason not to have children. In a western country that would barely be a drop in the ocean to solving the worlds problems.
The bigger problems are population distribution and overconsumption by first world countries.

Just coz we were kids doesn’t mean we know what it’s like being the parent until you are one! Imagining something doesn’t mean you know. You imagine something based on the information you know. I didn’t know until I had mine. Yes I knew there would be babies involved and I needed to look after them but that was pretty much it and I had a niece that I looked after at times. It’s not something you can imagine.

Just because it wasn't for you. Doesn't mean it isn't for everyone.

It honestly isn't that hard to imagine. Don't be so tunnel visioned.

Think we will have to agree to disagree. Have a nice night.

This won’t be true for all but there is perhaps a case for suggesting that some parents feel the need to defend their choice as ‘the only possible choice’. What’s that book (that I didn’t particularly like) A Life’s Work by Rachel somebody... all about the sudden realisation (after you’ve birthed said children) that it is one of the hardest things you’ll ever undertake..? Again, she speaks a lot of truth because it is tough - depressingly so at times. I don’t think we are able to rationalise WHY we do it too well. And for those that are unable to conceive children, it is also hard to explain the pain that comes with that (I imagine). We are all in a similar boat in that we are either very sure we don’t want children, very sure we do want children and have them, or very sure we do want children but cannot have them. Whatever it is that makes us so resolute I haven’t heard anyone explain. But I don’t think we have a lot of choice in those feelings. So, when people go against what WE personally feel it is disconcerting and we all know how humans can tend to cope with anomalous behaviour. They are quite often aggressive, and spiteful and horrible. And that is fear. Fear of the choices we made, fear of the choices we didn’t get to make in my humble opinion.

I was adamant all through my 20s that I never wanted children. Then I hit 30 and suddenly realised that it soon wouldn't be my choice to make. (Early menopause runs in my family.) It was like a switch had been thrown and I changed my mind almost overnight. (I have to be in control; not of others, but of myself.) As soon as realised I was pregnant I immediately thought, "Oh God", What have I done?" But that was because I'm also a coward. (In the face of physical pain, not other stuff.)

Was the best decision I have ever made. I lost my husband, my status (which largely came via him) Lost a comfortable and financially secure life. Still don't regret one moment of any of it. Now, pushing 60 far harder than I like to admit, I work 50+ hours every week over 6 days in three low paid jobs just to keep an extremely modest roof over my head. Not totally poverty stricken but some months are, "heat or eat" months, like this one.
Am I bonkers? Possibly. Do you have the right to judge me as such? No. Glad you're happy with your decision. Genuinely hope you don't ever regret it. One bit of advice. Stop judging people and get on with your own life.

I assure you, you don’t.

Trust me, I've got a fair idea. I've never done a bungee jump but I've a pretty good feeling that I wouldn't like it.

I chat to many people who have children; I listen to constant musings in the office about family life. To say that I've no idea is just ..... not true.