To think people who have children are bonkers

[Ichabod2000]

I read threads like these: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3228427-to-ask-what-s-an-adult-problem-that-nobody-prepared-you-for, and a common theme is the crushing relentlessness and thanklessness of parenting (motherhood in particular).

Why do it? Really? It's largely a voluntary choice, and has a tangible negative impact on your time, finances, career, relationships, and often physical and mental health. Not to mention the huge negative impact overpopulation is having on our planet.

I understand people feel overwhelming love for their children, but this is after the fact - you don't feel overwhelming love for children that don't exist yet.

And people talk about how rewarding it is - but there are lots of rewarding things you can do that don't involve propagating your genes.

I'm at an age where people ask me about my plans for children, and I just can't objectively see an advantage to it. I have a brilliant DH, an interesting job that I enjoy, and plenty of free time and moolah. Why would I make the conscious decision to risk these things I have? Why do so many make that choice?

I think it's bananas, personally, and I wonder if its just me that doesn't get it?

I think you either get an overwhelming urge to have a baby or you don't.

It IS bonkers from a purely rational perspective. It’s bonkers to deliberately change from a life where you put yourself first, to one where you have to put someone else first all the time - and sacrifice many of your own preferences in the process.

But... hormones.

And also the longer term benefits of a bigger family.

I didn't have an overwhelming urge to have children at all but I had DS (unplanned) at 18. I have never found it as difficult as some of the people on this thread. Pregnancy and labour were a walk in the park, my body bounced back and DS was a very easy baby and is still a very easy, good natured child at 7. Yes there have been days where it has been a little more difficult but compared to most they have been few and far between. He is very good company, I really enjoy spending time with him and there's not enough free time/money in the world that could convince me to be without him.

However, DS dad and I split when he was 2. Despite us not working as a couple, he is a very good dad and we split custody 60/40. So I have plenty of free time and go on various holidays/breaks every year with and without DS. Other than childcare, I also don't find having one all that expensive.

If I was reading some of the threads/posts on here before having a child I probably wouldn't want one either . Maybe I have just been lucky but I absolutely love my life! I don't intend to have anymore though - as I said, I don't have any overwhelming urge to have children and I don't think I would be quite as happy if number 2 was more difficult!

How old are you OP?

Apologies if I missed that.

I had a child because it was a deep-seated primal urge as others have mentioned. I fully expected exhaustion, difficulty and given my history of depression and anxiety I was braced for PND and a feeling of losing my identity as well.

What nobody had prepared me for is how deeply fulfilling I find motherhood. It has almost totally stopped my habit of circular, overly-analytical introspective thinking: I feel much more engaged with the world outside myself and less bound by the idea that I should have one cohesive identity. It’s love like I’ve never experienced but it’s also daily moments of fun, hilarity and transcendental delight. It forces me to live in a place of hope and challenges my tendency for cynicism. I am more appreciative of other people. I have a clearer idea of the value of my time which means I’m more assertive at work as I don’t have spare energy for people-pleasing or ego-massage, and I get much more done because I fret and faff less. I have a deeper and more respectful relationship with my own body after seeing it navigate pregnancy, birth and recovery.

I agree that having children is essentially selfish in an overpopulated and increasingly imperilled world. It’s also one of the few decisions I’ve made to which I attach absolutely no doubts or regrets.

For most people, it is difficult to argue rationally the case for having children before they arrive. Biology drives. When talking to people without children we don't know their reasons for being childless and so it would be crass to bang on about how great they are. Despite the difficulties, to see 4 develop and grow into great caring adults, and the joy of 10 grandchildren. Without them, my life would have been very different, and not so rich ( although would have been richer materially) In retirement, my friends without children have a life that I would not want. Primal urge brought me here but here is where I want to be. You cannot rationally argue the rush of pure unadulterated love for these little ones. Throughout teenage and young adult years they keep you up to date, challenge your thinking and enrich your life

I have had the career and DINKY lifestyle with my own husband and for me none of it compares to being part of my own little tribe.

My children make me focus on moving forward rather than stuck in the present. Im gradually losing family members around me and the link to the next generation makes me put everything into perspective. No amount of career accolades, nights out or travelling would do that for me. I've already done those and they pale in comparison. Sleepless nights and drains on your wallet are transitory, the deep connection to other human beings is priceless.

You sound pretty ignorant and frankly quite rude - by would you call people who choose to have children bonkers? You don’t want children? Fine - dont have them. Also - we have very interesting jobs, and ‘moolah’ too - shock horror - were parents. No negative impact on either of careers, neither of us suffer from mental health problems because of it. is it hard ? Yes, sometimes, but what business is it of yours to judge? And no - I don’t moan to my friends how tough it is simply because it was my choice to have children. I have an aunt who thought exactly like you, bragged about having free time, travelled the world, never had to change a nappy, always had hair and nails done - she’s almost 70 now and bitterly regrets not having any children, she would give it all back for just one child, but yes - she lives in a huge house with over 8 bedrooms and has everything money can buy, just not what she wants.

Rationally, it's madness. You're poorer, more tired, look older, have far less time to do anything you love, probably less likely to do as well in your career, less likely to focus on hobbies, eat more junk food and have a brain filled with Jurassic World and Star Wars characters instead of algebra and foreign languages.

It's also lovely. I adore the bones of them, raising them has been all sorts of wonderful and in 13 years I've never had a day where I regretted them. There have been moments of absolute hilarity and bliss and the memories we've created are what see me through the harder moments.Travelling with them, showing them the world is one of the absolute best unexpected perks of my time as a parent.

There's also no feeling in the world like my 13 year old laughing at my jokes or putting his arms around me (he's about 6 inches taller than me) for a proper bone-shaking hug. Or when the 8 year old brings his teddy into our bed first thing and the smell of sleep on his little-boy-scented head. The love is life-changing.

It has almost totally stopped my habit of circular, overly-analytical introspective thinking

Me too. Completely unexpectedly. The newborn period with DC1 was hard mentally, but about 90% of my ruminating and existential angst simply went "poof" when he was born, and has never come back. I'm mentally healthier.

One of my bug bears is the way that a woman’s decision whether or not to have children is treated like some kind of public service announcement applicable to all women.

Op you know how annoying it is when people ask you when you’re going to have kids? Well, it’s also annoying when people without kids ask you why you had them. It’s not simple, it’s not straightforward, and it’s probably not anyone else’s business.

It’s also not really a choice so much as a decision with unforeseeable consequences. So it’s still ok to complain about aspects of it to your friends.

On the flip side to your opinion OP, I think it's bananas that anyone one wouldn't want to have children. I understand that some people can't for one reason or another, but to actually make the decision not to have them baffles me.

I have friends who have chosen not to have them and I just don't get it. Their lives are no more exciting and fulfilling than ours. In fact, the decision not to have children is his, she has gone along with it as she's afraid to loose him and has a real air of sadness about her. But that's another story.

I think though, that my opinion comes from years of working with the elderly and seeing just how lonely the vast majority of elderly people who have never had children (mostly not through choice) are.

I know children can move away blah blah blah, but on balance most families maintain contact and look out for their aging parents. Even if they move away, there's always someone who cares on the end of the phone.

I know you shouldn't have children just so they can look after you in your old age, that's certainly not why I had mine. But it's something that a lot of people don't give any real thought to when they make the decision not to have children when they are younger.

One of my bug bears is the way that a woman’s decision whether or not to have children is treated like some kind of public service announcement applicable to all women.

This^. If you don't have kids "you will never find true purpose or the feeling true love" if you do "oh but your missing out an x, y, z". Feels like women can never win, dh is never questioned about what will he do for purpose and about experiencing "true love" , likewise those who have had kids, I rarely hear of the men being questioned about is he worried about his career/children balance.

Why wouldn't you want to experience everything you can in life?
There's very little that gives you such a profound human experience as having children.

I'm not disputing that many women feel a 'primal urge' to have children, though I didn't. But you can't say it's necessary. All we need to keep the species going is to want to have sex now and then.

And OP, you've got good points, but it wasn't the most tactful thing to say on here

If you don't want or have children & are so against it, why are you even on Mumsnet?!?! You've clearly posted to provoke a reaction. Have you nothing better to do??

I love having children. I have money, free time, a job that I love, and a brilliant child who brings utter joy to my life.

@Rytlock absolutely! Dh was 38 when our son was born. Nobody had ever asked him when he was going to have kids/ stop focusing on his career/ find meaning. I’d been fielding those questions for 10 years. Now, I make a point of not mentioning dc during job interviews because employers assume I am on 24 hour call. This thought has never occurred to dh.

I didn't want children at all in my Twenties and then got hit by a thunderbolt of longing for them in my 30s. When at first it seemed we were having fertility problems I was devastated and and having never wanted children before it was a complete about turn.

We went on to have three healthy children and after my first child was born I can honestly say all the missing pieces of my life just clicked into place. I felt complete.

I absolutely adore having them even though they are pains at time and find more and more that I need less of other people and I would just rather be with our little family.

As they get older the challenges change but they become friends and self-sufficient and it's wonderful to watch them setting off into the world. You have such a connection with them it's absolutely amazing.

I haven't rthft properly, but OP, I just wanted to say how I really do believe you don't realise what you'll be missing by deciding not to have children.
Yes, they're hard work sometimes, but the rewards of your child saying "I love you mum, for example, far far out weigh the endless worry they give you, or getting through all the stroppy teenage years without going insane etc etc.

My dc's give my life more meaning (even though I felt content before they came along), and no amount of material assets, fancy holidays, or total freedom can top that!

'I just wanted to say how I really do believe you don't realise what you'll be missing by deciding not to have children.'

What is the point of that sort of comment? Are you trying to convince someone who says they don't want children to change their mind, based on your experience? Because what good can come of that, other than making you feel extra smug and self righteous?

And how would you feel if OP told you she felt sad for you, missing out on a lovely life of freedom and financial security?

It's threads like this that bring out the defensiveness in parents and end up with those of us who didn't/couldn't have children feeling insulted and upset by some of the comments that we are less of a person because we haven't procreated.

We aren't. We also have responsibilities and can still experience love. Some of us plod away in perfectly normal jobs with a modest income and still have caring responsibilities. Many us are also unable to do all these spontaneous flashy holidays that we are supposed to do because we haven't got the time or the money or the energy. Yes, we get tired too. Yes we have sleepless nights, Igbo after night for years sometimes. Yes we get stressed and exhausted by the sheer monotonous nonsense of life. And yes, we care about the future.

So, OP, please stop trying to "other" us. We are perfectly normal human beings. Just without children.

There’s was a remarkably similar thread a few days ago that got deleted as OP became extremely goady.

As I said on that thread: there are loads of things that others do that I don’t want to do. And that’s fine. I feel no need to go on a makeup enthusiast’s site and say ‘AIBU to find women who like makeup completely bonkers?’ Each to their own.

Make whatever decision you want OP, and be happy with it. It’s no one else’s business, and you don’t need to hear loads of people saying they regret children and you are so clever and right not to have any to validate you.

My kids are the best thing I’ve ever, or will ever, do.

Lotta
And what is the point of OP"s post?
Is it ok for her to say parents are bonkers?

It's logical not to have children if your philosophy of life is to seek to maximise your own utility.

But there are other philosophies.