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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think people who have children are bonkers

752 replies

Ichabod2000 · 12/01/2019 07:05

I read threads like these: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3228427-to-ask-what-s-an-adult-problem-that-nobody-prepared-you-for, and a common theme is the crushing relentlessness and thanklessness of parenting (motherhood in particular).

Why do it? Really? It's largely a voluntary choice, and has a tangible negative impact on your time, finances, career, relationships, and often physical and mental health. Not to mention the huge negative impact overpopulation is having on our planet.

I understand people feel overwhelming love for their children, but this is after the fact - you don't feel overwhelming love for children that don't exist yet.

And people talk about how rewarding it is - but there are lots of rewarding things you can do that don't involve propagating your genes.

I'm at an age where people ask me about my plans for children, and I just can't objectively see an advantage to it. I have a brilliant DH, an interesting job that I enjoy, and plenty of free time and moolah. Why would I make the conscious decision to risk these things I have? Why do so many make that choice?

I think it's bananas, personally, and I wonder if its just me that doesn't get it?

OP posts:
CountessVonBoobs · 12/01/2019 10:12

Nobody tells the truth anymore. Or a sanitised version of the truth.

But what is "the truth"? Whose truth? My truth or your truth?

We regularly have women on here complaining that no one told them how hard childbirth or children would be and simultaneously women complaining that no one would shut up about how hard it was and they didn't find it hard at all. Who's telling or not telling the truth there?

My truth is that kids have been hard, very hard at times but have given me more than they've taken. Someone else's truth is that kids weren't hard at all. Someone else's is that kids have been agonisingly hard and they bitterly regret them.

partinor · 12/01/2019 10:14

Oh God I don't think putting a parent in a nursing home is dumping at all. Sorry if I gave that impression. I was just pointing out that lots of parents in nursing homes never or rarely to get visits. In reply to someone who felt sorry for childless adults who would not have adult children around. What I was trying to say is have children if you want, but don't do it to have adult children around when you are older to help you and visit. There are no guarantees.

notacooldad · 12/01/2019 10:15

I really didn't want kids but when I met DP it was made clear that children and marriage was part of the future plans.
I stalled for 6 years and the 9 months later DS1 was born, 3 years after that DS2 was born.
The lad are 22 and 19 and it was the best decision I have ever agreed to.
It's been a hell of a journey, sure it's been hard work at times and I can't say I loved every minute of them being 2 and a half! However I haven't had a minutes of proper trouble with them, they make us laugh. I love it when the four ( and sometimes 6 as they have girlfriends now ) go out.

As they were growing up DP and I worked together as parents which made sure we got free time to meet up with friends, keep our careers going, and made sure we spent time as a family.
Ok you can't say 'well what's in it for me and expect a bonus every 12 months' However what came out of it for me was a great unit of people that we are extremely close to, adore so much and care for us back.

I wouldn't have it any other way and out of all my choices , the one to have children and get married was my best.
If I have ny regrets it would be that I didn't get married and have children sooner than I did.

robininbrum · 12/01/2019 10:16

@Ichabod2000

Of course you are entitled to not want kids, and to not understand people who have them. But as pps have said, YABU to label people as 'bonkers' for having them.

As someone said early on in the thread, it's years of hard work and tantrums and tears and sometimes juggling a career/job at the same time. (Although amongst all that is a lot of fun and laughs and daytrips and walks and games and parties and fun holidays to Disney.)

Literally, me and DH have had so much fun with our kids over the last 20-odd years. (A boy and a girl.) as well as wanting to strangle them sometimes! Grin And now they are adults, they both live 10 miles away in the closest big town to us, and we have a wonderful relationship with them.

DH goes to play golf with our son, and he goes to football matches with him, and I go swimming, and for walks, and clothes shopping with our daughter. Sometimes all 4 of us go out for a meal (and sometimes we go with them and their partners as well,) and we also all go cycling together when they come to visit us in the rural area we live.

We have also been on holiday with all 6 of us (me, DH, our son, our daughter, and their partners,) in a 3 bedroom apartment in Italy. It was wonderful. We did our own thing sometimes, and did stuff with them sometimes, and all ate together in the evening in a local restaurant. It was wonderful. We are doing it again this September. Probably Croatia this time. Smile

As a few pps have said, it can be hard work, and the years when they are aged 15-20 are no picnic, but when they are grown, you have this wonderful new chapter with them, and the love you feel for them knows no bounds. It's a pure and precious love that, as someone said earlier in the thread, you have to have a child to experience. (And we still have grandchildren to come yet, as they both want children!)

One poster said she would have been lonely without children; I can understand that, because I know three women right now who live not far from me - all 55-65 - who are divorced or widowed with no children, and they are incredibly lonely. No partner, and no children, and subsequently no grandchildren either...... Have to admit, I really feel sorry for them.

One of them actually confessed not long ago that she regrets having no children, but didn't have them as her husband didn't want them. And another woman I know said she had a busy career anyway, so would not have found time for children. Thing is, she is now retired - so her career is over. One child-free woman I know said she would have been happy to have had children if they had turned out like my two, which I thought was a lovely thing to say.

Frankly, I think people who DON'T have children are bonkers. Grin You really don't know what you're missing. I love my kids so much I could cry. Smile

And yes, the positives of having children DEFINITELY outweigh the negatives!

@DungeonDragon15

I used to quite envy people who didn't have the "urge" to have children before having mine as it seemed their life would be so much easier. Now that I am middle aged with one adult and one teenage child I feel a bit sorry for them as once their parents have died they don't really have much family.

Agree with this. And that's pretty much what I was saying about the women I know who are widowed or divorced with no children. Their parents have passed too, and they virtually have no-one else. It must be a rather lonely existence.

Also, when our children were younger, some child-free people used to bang on about how THEY could buy what they want, and how THEY had nice holidays and a nice car etc. But tbh, we have always had the same stuff as the child-free folk. I have never seen them have anything that we didn't have.

Cuppaqueen · 12/01/2019 10:19

Interesting thread, OP - and I'll answer you as one of the few parents here who did not feel 'the urge'. I was never maternal, found children slightly intimidating in fact (no young kids in my family so no experience of them), was adamant throughout my 20s that I didn't want any. After I got married, DH and I agreed we'd wait and see ... too busy having fun, travelling, eating out, buying our house, being carefree like you basically.

So I got to late 30s and we thought, soon we have to make a decision. Still no maternal urge on my side. The things that influenced me were:

  • having a child is still one of life's most transformative experiences - pregnancy, birth, nurturing and raising a child. I wanted to know what it was like.
  • curiosity to see what a child of mine and the man I loved would be like
  • a desire to see a part of me and of him live on (a bit morbid but I thought if/when something happened to him, a child would be a great comfort to me, to have something left - and vice versa)
  • I thought he would be a brilliant dad
  • I worried that when we were older, the travelling etc would lose its appeal and we'd feel sad we didn't have a family of our own (especially as we have no nephews/nieces etc)
  • being sure I would love the child no matter what, once it was here
  • we'd done so much travelling that we were getting a bit jaded (this is nice but not as good as Sri Lanka ... 😳)

Anyway, we decided to try when I was 37 and I was lucky enough to get pregnant straight away. I was properly nervous, unsure, but from the moment I saw the heartbeat on the scan, I began to love that child-to-be. Despite being almost phobic about pregnancy beforehand, I mostly enjoyed it. I fell hopelessly in love with my son - I remember crying tears of joy in the hospital after he was born. (The hormones are crazy fierce! I don't take drugs but I imagine it must be a bit like that!) My DH and I have loved and laughed at and enjoyed him every day, and although he's now a toddler and getting more challenging, he's also talking and joking and learning every day and it is WONDERFUL. Yes, our sleep is battered and we haven't had a meal out together in the evening for 6 months - but we wouldn't swap him for all the lie-ins and dinners in the world.

I know I'm lucky that it's been such a positive experience for me so far. (Work is another story and I definitely agree with @CaptainBrickbeard's points there. But I'll get back to my career and anyway, it's only a job and no one puts 'beloved employee of ABC plc' on their tombstone do they?) I am also lucky to have no financial worries and my DH is brilliant, does his full fair share.

My point (long-winded) is that you cannot know what your own personal experience of having a child will be until you do it. It makes my blood run cold to think of all I could have easily missed out on, if I just listened to people moaning about the downsides, or even to my own misgivings. My advice is to try to shut out the noise and just evaluate your own personal pros and cons. But at the end of the day, remember the biggest 'pro's you probably won't know until afterwards.

O4FS · 12/01/2019 10:19

I have 4 DCs.
4 births, a little grazing. 3 of those were at home. Last one I declared ‘a piece of piss’.
Kids were lovely toddlers, ate their dinners, have lovely friends. All do well at school. Have hobbies of sport, music, dance. All got into a selective school. Doing well.

I’m a single parent. Their DF is very much involved and pays maintenance. We have a nice home. We go on holidays. I have a lovely DP.

That’s my truth. I would never, in other circumstances, post that on here. Why on earth would I?

I’ve posted plenty of other times when I’ve needed help, support or when things have been shit.

Singlenotsingle · 12/01/2019 10:20

I agree with OP. People are bonkers to have dc. There are quite enough people in the world already. But too late for me! I've got 2 adc and 2 dgc.

LynseyLou1982 · 12/01/2019 10:20

I loved my baby from moment the lines appeared on the test. He's our whole world. It's tiring and time consuming and yes we have less of a social life and not much money but what he brings to our life means much more than material things. Ive just gone back to work and the thought of his little cheeky smiling face keeps me going all day.

MargotsFlounceyBlouse · 12/01/2019 10:22

The tough early years are just a fraction of these new lives. We don't have babies because we love sleepless nights, speaking personally I had an urge to make a family. It was an urge though, something not particularly rational! Grin

crazychemist · 12/01/2019 10:36

I didn’t want a baby, I desperately wanted a couple of 7 yo (or there about). I wanted to be part of a family. I had a wonderful childhood and always loved being part of a larger unit. I still do. I’m only sad that my DD will not have any cousins, so I hope she finds lots of local friends and is in and out of their houses like I was in my teenage years.

Dungeondragon15 · 12/01/2019 10:37

In reply to someone who felt sorry for childless adults who would not have adult children around. What I was trying to say is have children if you want, but don't do it to have adult children around when you are older to help you and visit. There are no guarantees.

Of course there are no guarantees and certainly no one should have children so that they have visitors while in a care home. This is a thread about pros and cons of having children though isn't it? And I think the fact that you have more family in middle age and later (when parent are often dead) is definitely a pro in my experience. As I said, I was comparing myself in middle age with young adult and teenage children to middle aged colleagues/friends/family without children rather than thinking about visitors in care homes.

Regarding visitors in care homes though, you don't know that those who don't have visitors all have family that don't bother visiting. Many probably are childless. Also if someone with children doesn't have regular visitors it doesn't mean they might as well not have family. Their family may live too far away to visit very regularly but that doesn't mean that they haven't got their parents back and are not looking out for them. Also as described above, those in care homes often go at a later stage if they have family. My grandmother was certainly able to stay in her home for a lot longer because her children/grandchildren were taking it in turns to help her out.

QwertyLou · 12/01/2019 10:38

OP if you don’t want kids, it’s fine. You don’t have to justify it to anyone - just say “we’re happy as we are” and change the subject. If you feel sure, what are you struggling about? Confused

I wasn’t overly maternal and had not necessarily planned to be a mom. My life was a bit like yours sounds. But I thank my lucky stars every day that life had other plans - my son is an absolute joy and delight. That’s me though - people are all different (omg)!

And of course you read about the boring bits here. It’s called venting.

BlackeyedGruesome · 12/01/2019 10:38

Having children is a leap into the dark. I really wanted children, a second after the first had a difficult babyhood. But you are right, it buggered my career which is now non existent, health, body. You also do not know whether the children are going to be healthy. Both mine have inherited a condition from me, and also both appear to have autism.

For me though, they are absolutely worth it despite it being hard work, relentless, painful etc.

If you do not think all the crap of having a child, disabled, I'll or not, then don't do it.

OutPinked · 12/01/2019 10:39

I also had the primal urge. I feel as though my life would have a big gaping hole without them in it. I have a career and a degree I worked very hard to achieve but it still wouldn’t be the same without my DC. They’re pains in my arse a lot of the time but I love them dearly and absolutely love being a parent.

Gazelda · 12/01/2019 10:40

I don't believe that anything could bring me more love, pride and laughter than my child does.

I had her because I wanted to feel the warmth of a family. Of belonging. Of being important to someone.

That all sounds very selfish, but I like to think the world has benefitted even more than I have by having my daughter in it.

ElektraLOL · 12/01/2019 10:41

It's just nonsense to say that there are too many people in the world. We have a growing ageing population and need younger generations to come through to help pay for their quality of life in old age.

JudasPrudy · 12/01/2019 10:45

'I understand people feel overwhelming love for their children, but this is after the fact - you don't feel overwhelming love for children that don't exist yet.'

I spent my twenties dreaming about my future baby, wondering if I would be lucky enough to have one, what I would call him, what he would be like. It sounds ridiculous, but I loved him for years before he was born. And now that he's here and I know him it's like nothing else I can describe.

The problem with these threads is that people say 'why have kids, I have a husband, all the sleep I want, a job and can go on holiday anytime!' But i have all of those things too. It's not one or the other, money or children or sleep or children. You don't have to sacrifice everything for your children. They enrich your life by so much.

mydogisthebest · 12/01/2019 10:50

I can understand having children if you really want them but so many seem to have them just because it's the next step in life! Oh and of course so many are accidents.

DH and I discussed at length whether or not to have children but it seems a lot of our friends and family didn't. I know two couples who got married and then found one wanted children and the other didn't. One of the couples had a baby although the woman didn't want children, the other couple didn't have children. Both couples ended up divorced.

Lots of my friends say they just had children because "it is what you do after you get married"! They are almost all divorced. Quite a few had a baby which was not planned. They are almost all divorced.

Most of my friends with children say if they could go back in time they would chose not to have any even though they do love them. I am talking friends with grown up children not young ones

So many of my friends with children are divorced. Some on 2nd marriages, some on 3rd marriages. Most of them say having children started the breakdown of their marriage. This may or may not be true but certainly most of the couples I know still in happy first marriages are childfree.

ShatFic · 12/01/2019 10:52

This thread is so interesting.
My DC wasn't planned, I had no urge to have any, no instant rush of love when they were born. I love my DC more than I can possibly describe but parenting is tough and that emotional rollercoaster has caused me anxiety and depression. Children ruin your life as you know it and if you don't have the urge to have them I wouldn't.

abcdema · 12/01/2019 11:02

It's very hard work, but my daughter had bought more joy and love to my life than I could have ever imagined.

kalinkafoxtrot45 · 12/01/2019 11:06

It probably is bonkers to have kids, but people do anyway and mostly seem to love it despite the difficult aspects.

I’ve never had the urge, never felt moved to try. And no doubt some people think I’m bonkers too. No matter. It’s my life. I don’t feel I am missing out, just living differently. (As for moolah and fancy holidays - I wish!)

We are lucky to live in a time and place where it can be a choice.

Aaaahfuck · 12/01/2019 11:06

I think this too op. Even if I had a no money and a rubbish job I still would not want children. So it's not just about having lots to lose. (I'm here for all the other stuff!) however I've assumed that for others it is the urge that pp's talk about. I have a 2year old niece who I love so much. I do get it, I'm also really close to my sister and I've read lots on here! So I appreciate how hard it can be. It's just not for me.

CountFosco · 12/01/2019 11:13

It seems to be pretty common for parents in nursing homes. Sorry to be cynical, just seen it happen too much.

Of my grandparent's generation one died at home, one died in hospital after a short illness, one died in hospital after a longer decline. The last one lived with my parents for several years before going into a home, his home was in the same village as my Mum's work so she saw him every day. Of DH and my parents 2 are dead so far, one at home and one in hospital after a short illness. Our mothers are still independent and both spent Christmas at a child's house surrounded by children and grandchildren (even those that live abroad). That's what happens in loving families.

MrsMaker88 · 12/01/2019 11:23

People are living a lot longer, family may not have the room for an elderly relative, you may not even get on with each other that well, and yes they may not be local. You definitely can’t assume kids will be nearby when you are old but generally having a family is something fulfilling to look back on and you will continue to feel pride in children and possibly grandchildren in your old age. Hopefully they will visit and keep in touch regularly and be there when you need them.

katekat383 · 12/01/2019 11:25

OP:

Totes.

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