To feel incredibly sad that I can't get close to my teen dd

[Fudgecakes]

I feel cheated. My dd went from 10 to 19 in 3 yrs...she's only 13 but, like a lot of teens, is trying to be older than her years.

As a result she's pushing me away. Endless nights in bedroom on phone or playing music. Not wanting to engage with us at all. Or dollying herself up and taking pouty selfies.

And her attitude....how long have you got? Vile . Confrontational and angry most of the time....we don't rub along well at all I guess because we're at loggerheads over what she wants to be/do which a lot of the crime I feel she's too young for.. but all her peers are allowed.

I adored my mum at this age....I guess I want what I had with her....but I appreciate it's a different world for teens now with a lot if peer pressure. I know you cant stop the wotld turning but sometimes i think we need to slow them down a bit. To help them all get back to being kids we i wish i could ban:-

smartphones and social media
Victoria's Secret
Pretty Little Things
Drill music
Crop tops
Bodycon
Nail bars
Full on make up

Am I alone in how I feel?

OP I was like your DD at that age and looking back now I see that it was heartbreaking for my mum. She'd always dreamed of being a mum and it happened quite late for her, by which time she'd built it up to something quite idealised in her mind. I don't have teens myself so can't offer any parenting advice, but I did eventually grow up and learn to look beyond my own wants / interests, and my mum is one of my favourite people now (I'm 34). I have so much love and respect for her and really regret how hard I pushed her away as a teen. There's hope for even the most strained of mother-daughter relationships

Let’s be fair here though. This kid isn’t doing anything that bad. She’s sullen and moody and argumentative. But there’s no mention of dangerous or violent behaviour.

I was a difficult teen. I adored my mum but couldn’t show it for some reason. Teens are complex beasts.

Their friends matter, fitting in matters. Victoria’s Secret is just the impulse or so ...? for this generation, no biggie.

I've been through with 2 DD and don't think they all do this.

It all depends on which "friends" they have chosen. All of that is normal in some circles, but completely alien to teens who have a completely different type of friend/peer group. If they're very impressionable and want to "fit in", they'll do what they have to, even if they don't want to! Perhaps the OP needs to start thinking about how she can work towards improving her daughter's self confidence, self belief, and independence, so that she's not living her teens just copying what her friends are doing and maybe start to think more independently and do things she wants to with different friends.

I think your benchmark of saying you adored your DM at 13 is an unrealistic expectation that is setting you both up to fail.

It is normal for 13/14 year old girls to rebel against their DMs and want their own space and own interests.

You should try to spend some quality time with her though, but on her terms.

I’d suggest things like let her give you a makeover, braid your hair, give you a manicure, go shopping, go to the cinema, have a film and popcorn night watch some tv shows together (friends, Buffy, stranger things, girl boss, bake off, Simpson’s, don’t tell the bride).

Don’t criticise her just for having a different opinion and tastes from you.

Invite her friends over.

Get to know their mums.

It’s hard but it’ll be worth it.

You need to watch "Eighth Grade". Just out and very good indeed about this game group.

Q: How school today?
A: OK
Q what did you do?
A: Stuff.

When my DD was in the teen thing, I found the car, AKA the mobile confessional, worked well: loads of things that would never have emerged from direct questions, e.g.
Q: How was school today?
A: OK
Q What did you do?
A: Stuff.

It isn't easy, but keep the talk going as much as you can. Talk is good, and they do get it eventually. I'm pleased and a bit proud that the talk never dried up and DD is a splendid young woman who tells me far more than I would have said to my mum.

*smartphones and social media
Victoria's Secret
Pretty Little Things
Drill music
Crop tops
Bodycon
Nail bars
Full on make up

Why are you allowing her to have/have access to these things?*

^^This. With bells on. Bar the music, I would never ban any kind of music. Drill has a very bad rep atm, but so did punk in it's day.

Mine didn't have smartphones at 13, and still don't have social media. We have done family stuff always. There is no tech upstairs. There isn't that much tech tbh. One TV, one games console that they play on together and that we all play regularly as a family. Laptops for working. No phones when anything else is happening. They don't strop off to their rooms cause there's nothing to do.

Re: Victoria’s Secret - it’s not actually the grown up stuff but the off-shoot called ‘Pink’ which all the teen girls found here are into. They do really nice ‘college’ type wear, decent bras and a nice range of fairly nice appropriate teen undies.

I surprised dd with a trip to a nail bar - we both got our nails done - I have close to zero interest in getting my nails done but for dd - the experience was completely elevated because I did something that she loved - she knew it wasn't really me but that seemed to make it all the more special - it's a moment that she recalls very fondly and I do too for that very reason.

I'd also add that their friends are really important at this age. If you can get to know them, even if it's just as the designated driver / food buyer when they go shopping, it might help to reassure you.

Kevin & Perry was very accurate in showing this. Your children won't talk to you, but the chances that their friends will be perfectly happy to

Your desire to recreate the relationship you had with your own Mum is part of the problem here. Your DD is not you. You aren't your Mum.

I also have a DD13 and can emphasise with the mood swings. However, she isn’t into make-up or her appearance - or anything! Over the past year she’s dropped out of various clubs and now doesn’t do anything other than mope about with her phone. She lacks any form of motivation- it’s very frustrating. I think it’s tied up with low self-esteem but I don’t know how to help her ‘get a life’ as such.

It’s a difficult age whatever they are into OP my DD 13 has bucked the trend good for her and you, you might think or I wish mine would.

She does play games on her iPad and phone. But she doesn’t give a damn about much else on your list including being overly invested in social media or her appearance. She doesn’t do make up, push up bras, cropped tops, short skirts for school, isn’t interested in boys or music etc like most of her peers.

She did have some friends and primary school and in year 7 but they have all binned her and been nasty to her in favour of trying to fit in with the popular heavily made up, pouty, cropped top brigade.

She has some friends and school but no friends outside of school probably because she isn’t into the other things and has little confidence in herself. But she’s still stroppy and argumentative probably with her hormones. She is very immature for her age in many ways but quite mature and resilient in other ways. I love her to bits and we are close but much less close than we were two or three years ago. I think this is just a part of growing up they push away and hopefully will come some way back to us. But please believe me whichever path they take it’s not easy yes I know where she is on an evening and on a weekend (as she is always with us). But she has no one to walk to and from school with so I am giving her lifts, no one to go out with in the holidays and last year on her birthday she wanted to spend it going to a dog friendly cafe with us and it’s the same again this year.

They don't strop off to their rooms cause there's nothing to do

Well that certainly never stopped me stropping off when I was a teen

But I think it's easy to be a bit smug and think you have easy teens because of what you are doing when in reality they are like newborns or toddlers; sometimes they are awful just because they are awful and you just have to manage it.

And I have a good friend who really forced the family thing; no phone, no social media etc. One kid just went behind her back and became very secretive: to this day my friend doesn't know much about her life. The other, more biddable daughter, just became very socially isolated and never got a decent group of friends, a situation that remains in her mid twenties.

My DD is also 13 - I've decided to join in with her interest of K-Pop (took her and some friends to see BTS last year and listen when she tells me the latest gossip from her favourite groups), I'm welcoming to her friends who seem to like me and consider me cool (which I am very much not!). She has been retreating into youtube most recently so last night I put 'Don't mess with the dress' on TV, a programme she loves to entice her away from it, she put the iPad down and we had a hug on the sofa whilst laughing at the dresses people had chosen. I think you've just got to work harder at it to stay relevant in her life and enjoy the small chinks of time you get with them. She had a late start at school this morning so I cooked her a full English (which we don't have often and she considers a real treat) and we sat down and ate together before she left for school. It was fab

I never understand parents who ban or forbid perfectly normal activities such as:

smartphones and social media
Victoria's Secret
Pretty Little Things
Drill music
Crop tops
Bodycon
Nail bars
Full on make up

There is nothing there that in itself is bad or wrong. It may not be your thing, most of it isn't mine, but none of it is immoral or bad.

Surely, you do some of this stuff with them, not ban it. You guide them, help them understand that a crop top and the shortest of shorts are not appropriate clothing in some circumstances, that social media 24/7 is going to fry their minds and most likely give them self-esteem issues and so on.

What the fuck good does banning this stuff do? How do they learn anything that way?

My Dd is turning 20 next week, but I can honestly say that our relationship has always been wonderful. She certainly didn't get any products or services that were aimed at adults when she was 13 though!

I saw what was happening with other kids her age, how their clothing was changing and their interests were evolving, but it was definitely because their parents were buying into it all. Neither I or Dh were going to go down that road. We didn't go for labels or big brands, and neither of my DC do even now. Social media didn't happen until they were 14, and then I had access until their 16th birthday. They never had Tvs in their rooms as we wanted to have a family Tv only.

I spent most evenings with her as we travelled to her sports training and music events, we almost lived in the car and I was really interested and involved in her clubs so we always had common interests. I adored her at 13 and still do now.

She's at Uni an hour away now, and she spent a year abroad before going to Uni. She still calls or video calls every day and I see her at least once a week.

I have no regrets.

Like a PP, my DD14 is not into anything on your list- I think this is probably more to do with friends influences maybe?

Anyway, my DD doesn't spend much time in her room as she doesn't have a TV in her room. She's never been allowed to take her laptop into her room. She spends a lot of time in her phone, but also eats at the table with me were no phone are allowed which means we can talk properly.

She does go out with friends on weekends but only 1 day and the other she tends to spend with me - we always arrange to watch a film or do something, like shopping or her favourite restaurant. Maybe this would work?

**TinklyLittleLaugh They don't strop off to their rooms cause there's nothing to do

Well that certainly never stopped me stropping off when I was a teen**

Tbf, me neither. Though I used to strop off to the big tree in the garden and look tragic.... (Especially in the rain).

Agree about the easy/difficult thing. They are easy, which I sometimes think is my reward for them being babies from hell and I was on my knees and other people would say 'ooh well if you just get them into a routine'

I do think social media is the devil though and I don't think I will regret not allowing it. They have wide social circles as they do so much stuff outside home, clubs etc. So I'm not worried about friendships either.

I appreciate it may be easy for me to say with mine and much harder for other people, but I do think we let them grow up too soon and there is a feeling now that there is nothing to be done, you just have to allow it. I don't agree.

Wow Amazonian Our DDs sound exactly the same! You've written what I was about to say. My DD is 14 but isn't into makeup, VS etc. She does use social media but is very careful with it. DHs work is to do with the internet and he has put the fear of god into her about putting her photos online etc so there are no pouty poses on Instagram (she uses that a bit to show pics of her art). But she is still moody (especially when tired or hungry!) and doesn't tell me much about what's going on in her life bar day to day school stuff. I found this hard at first and tried to push her and she backed off as she found me judgmental so now I let her be. Of course I still tell her off/make sure she keeps safe/does her homework/eats her greens etc. All the proper mothering stuff but I don't try and force her to spend time with us etc. She's mainly lovely still and is never rude to me (she wouldn't dare!) but the moody stuff I just ignore unless she is horrible to anyone (mainly her brother) and she gets told off for that. I'm not worried about "losing" her, she is growing up and getting independent and that is exciting! She still loves us :) The other day she came downstairs and crawled into bed with me for a 30 min cuddle which was lovely :) Always my beautiful girl just not little anymore and there's nothing wrong with that.

All perfectly normal. Can i add fake tan to the list?

I did basically the total opposite to what my mum did with me with my now 16 year old!

I did not get on with my mother at all as a teen and often felt I hated her because she was totally uninterested in me and unsupportive and critical. She put me down a lot and did not give me confidence. We get on okay now but it's taken years and we've never been what I'd call close.

I suppose I've gone off in a totally different direction and been quite liberal with my daughter. I've encouraged her to be independent. I've made an effort to encourage her to bring round friends and have sleepovers and get to know them. She actually complained that she tells me too much and her friends never talk to their mums. Consequently I feel very close to her.
I went with her to the doctors to discuss contraception. Im a listening ear when she has boyfriend dramas and try to support and advise rather than be overtly strict and disapproving.

She tells me about her music and vice versa. I introduce her to my likes too. We watched Thelma and Louise over Christmas which she loves. ( She classes this as an old film!)

She can be moody like all teens but you need to invest in time with her and then know when to leave her alone. Do some fun tho he occasionally and hopefully she will allow you in more.

I saw what was happening with other kids her age, how their clothing was changing and their interests were evolving, but it was definitely because their parents were buying into it all. Neither I or Dh were going to go down that road. We didn't go for labels or big brands, and neither of my DC do even now. Social media didn't happen until they were 14, and then I had access until their 16th birthday. They never had Tvs in their rooms as we wanted to have a family Tv only.
I think this was luck more than good parenting - having witnessed a girl from school whose were strict - she still did the stuff everyone else was doing (and much more) but lied to her parents continuously - she is no contact with them now - no surprise there!

Another battle scarred survivor mum here.
My friend at work and I both had awful Dds (14-17 was worst). We formed the ABH club (Anywhere But Home) and would go and have a coffee and a moan together whenever we had enough.
Both ours were rude, nasty, in trouble at school and pushed us away.
My dd spent ages on her phone and screamed at me to get the fuck out of her room! Still remember that day as I had to go for a drive to keep from murdering her. Ended up in a supermarket car park crying .
She's 24 now and absolutely lovely. Still lives at home and is a pleasure to have around.
Not much help for you with 13 year old but my dd became a nice normal person again once she was at college and working part time.
Wait it out and don't take it personally.
Any nice thing she does, praise her. We get stuck in the negative NO phase with them at this age.

I second the tv and box set thing. Both of mine are at uni now and when home do their own thing. However what I have found has always helped a lot is watching box sets , comedy shows together. Mostly not my choice, but I was always happy to put up with it to spend time with them and keep them in the room with me. Try that and some treats or a takeaway.

I don’t think 13 is an age when most girls adore their mum, so I think you might have been quite unusual in that regard.

Of course some teenage girls won't be into the list the OP posted. Some will have completely different interests or be very shy or pretend they're not into it because they're seeking their parents approval etc.

My mother banned me from all of the normal interests that teenagers had. I hated her with every ounce of my being. However, in front of her I was polite and well-behaved as that was the path of least resistance. Stay below the radar, nothing to see here. As soon as I was on the bus to school I changed my shoes & my skirt and put on some make up and carefully took it all off and changed back again on the way home. I learnt to be a master of deception and learnt to lie and cover my lies and and I also worked my arse off so that I could go to university and escape. Looked every inch the model daughter from her perspective. Behind the scenes, I smoked, drank, took drugs, dressed provocatively, wore too much make up and behaved in every way a parent wouldn't want their daughter to. I did it all on my own, with no guidance and no one to offer any assistance when things went wrong - other than my friends.

There is a massive difference between authoritarian parenting (banning everything) and permissive parenting (allowing everything). Somewhere between the two sits assertive parenting, where compromise can happen, where conversations can take place and where a young person can explore the wider world in an age appropriate way knowing that there is an adult who will listen to them, stand up for them and help them.