Game of thrones

[Justagirlwholovesaboy]

I like Daenerys but I’m hoping for Jon Snow to get his happy ever after, and Arya too :)

@Yamayo I also don’t get the Sansa-hatred that often goes alongside Tyrion-love.

In season 6 I get the frustration that Sansa didn’t reveal to Jon that the KotV were coming to the bottle for Winterfell before allowing him to go into battle. It was stupid - but I blame D&D for wanting their ‘Riders of Rohan’ moment.

Sansa is a great character who shows great potential as a leader. I think there are many hints in the books but they are often only apparent on a re-read. Arya, on the other hand, shows a real lack of judgment in both books and show. I think she’s likely to meet an unpleasant end.

I hate what they’ve done with Tyrion. Book Tyrion is a vile, entitled, whiny rapist and murderer. Show Tyrion is a saint.

Don’t get me started on Euron Sparrow. Book Euron is so much more interesting. The Forsaken sample chapter was hideous.

Weve started watching from the beginning in anticipation of the new season. Partly so DH, who hasn’t read the books, can remember who in the cast of thousands is who again and partly because there’s nothing else on. My problem is I keep pudding DH off by warning the characters out loud of bad things to come

. ‘No, Ned, don’t put your plans to get you and your girls the fuck out of Kings Landing on hold for an hour to go with Littlefinger to see Robert’s last bastard. And if you do have to do that, don’t then go and tell Cersei you know her dirty little secret. Wtf is wrong with you?’

They’re not listening to me, they keep plunging right into one disaster after another!

I'm puzzled by the fan hatred of Sansa. I've always liked her, books and TV.

I love her too.

My theory is that if you read a lot of commercial fantasy and not much else, characters like Sansa (noble born females who buy into the values of their society) are rare, except as eye candy and trophy wives.

These readers are not used to taking her viewpoint seriously and they can't deal with it.

They prefer a 'badass' like Arya

But Sansa is exactly why George is such a good writer. It's a shame that he seems to have lost interest in the series.

Pudding? Pissing - stop censoring me autocorrect. It’s GOT not Disney.

LaurieMarlow gender-conforming women (if that’s even a term) in this series are judged far more harshly than men. Arya is given a free pass for some pretty awful actions whereas Sansa is considered unforgivable for something she did way back in season 1.

Tyrion’s attitudes and actions are remarkably similar to Cersei’s and yet he’s forgiven because of his awful background and she’s condemned.

Cat is considered an evil bitch and yet Tywin is considered ‘badass’ and ‘cool’.

I am braced for the fact that Cleganebowl is pretty much 100% certain to happen.

It will prove that D&D have absolutely no understanding of the source material.

gender-conforming women (if that’s even a term) in this series are judged far more harshly than men

Totally. Cat is a great example.

whereas Sansa is considered unforgivable for something she did way back in season 1

The thing that kills me about this is that Sansa gets crucified for telling Cersei, even though this is absolutely what you might expect an 11 year old to do (go to an authority figure, no one has ever taught her to be wary of authority).

Yet Ned doesn't get pilloried for exactly the same thing (telling Cersei) even though Ned is an experienced grown man who should know better and his actions (pure stupidity) put his family in immediate and grave danger.

Book Tyrion was awful to Sansa when they were married.
We are supposed to like him because he doesn't rape a terrified and traumatised 13 year old?

Book Tyrion was horrible.

I think that the showrunners do have an understanding of the source material and they also have an understanding of the majority of their target audience on tv which is not the minority of hardcore ASOIAF readers and canon adherents who insist on every i being dotted and t being crossed according to the gospel of GRRM. I have managed to separate the books (which will never have an ending because the author I believe has no fucking clue how to tie up the million loose ends he’s left dangling) from the show which I think is about as well-done as it could possibly be given the exhaustive and exhausting breadth and depth of source material. Of course it has flaws, of course some of the plotting and characterization isn’t all it could be but they must be doing something right to have captured and retained such a big audience over 7 seasons and at least they’ll have an ending. We are all entitled to criticize but if ALL you’re doing is criticizing why even bother watching?

What did book Tyrion do to Sansa?!

What did book Tyrion do to Sansa?!

Book Sansa was 12 (almost 13) when she was forced to marry Tyrion. He knew about it in advance (Tywin offered him Winterfell) but she didn’t know about it until she was dressed and about to be escorted to the sept.

On their wedding night she had to strip naked and he groped her and was about to rape her. At the last moment he thought better of it (unlike the other times he raped women) and didn’t.

Afterwards he was bitter and resentful at the fact that she wouldn’t confide in him and that she wouldn’t kneel for him at their wedding (good on her).

Yet, so many show watchers and book readers feel sorry for him.

Yamayo has summed up for me what I failed to articulate about Dany.

She's getting more despotic, all that 'bend the knee' tosh.

I also love Sansa's story arc and the way Sophie has portrayed her growing character. Big fan of both her and Maisie.

Tyrion also murdered Shae when he found her in his father's bed.
It wasn't self defence it was pure jealousy.

I don't think book Tyrion treated Sansa badly by the standards of westerosi society. He didn't rape her (I know, I know but rape was expected and encouraged in the circs)
He was consistently kind to her. He showed understanding around her feelings towards him. He kept her away from Joffrey.

However by book five, Tyrion is pretty monstrous. Offensive, bitter, wandering around demanding 'where do whores go', taking pleasure in raping said whores.

Of course none of this is covered in the show, where Tyrion has been whitewashed. And tbf he fivjave much to do last season apart from follow Dany.

I still don't like Sansa. She was always very self centred and she still seems that way, despite everything she's been through. She's still got that feeling that she isn't quite with Ayra and Jon. I liked Tyrion in both the books and screen versions. Yes he has, or had his bad side, most of them do, but his humour is the bit I love. Jaime is similar - despite being hateful in the early scenes, he has evolved and you can see there's a heart underneath. Dany and Ayra are going the other way - you start off adoring them for how they face the horrible things they've been through with such gusto, but both of them seem to have gone over the edge. Jon seems to soften Dany, perhaps he will Ayra. Tyrion softened Dany too at first, but she doesn't seem to listen now. Anyway we will see.. . (I've read all the books, albeit so long ago I can barely remember! I also think I preferred the tv series. I would've stopped reading after the first book, but watching the series prodded me to pick it up again at the end of series 3)

Sansa did exactly what you'd expect a spoiled and naive 11y/o to do in that situation

She paid mightily for a child's trust that there were no terrible secrets and grownups would act like it

I know she did what a spoiled 11yr old would've done, but she doesn't seem to have changed to me. That's why I don't like her.(although I have felt awful for what she went through with Ramsey).

I like Sansa too and also feel that the female characters get a bad rap unless they get to make a good speech and do something badass, like Arya and Lyanna Mormont (whom I also love).

I've heard it leveled at Dany that she's "nothing without her dragons" well no shit, you want her to try to best an army with, what, sword play?

I feel the same with Sansa. She will never be Arya. Arya has extensive training and a rare talent to begin with. Sansa is doing her best with what she has.

I don't understand why people don't like Ayra. She has lived through the horror of her whole family being murdered whilst keeping herself alive. She has had to be develop a mind of steel to survive not to mention the gruesome training she underwent to become a faceless man (I still remember the scene where she was stabbed in the stomach, and tried to get away clutching her stomach as blood poured out staggering about to get away from the other loon also in training) and there are still those who will like to see her dead. The people she is killing are to avenge her families deaths. I loved the part where she killed the hideous king (forgotten his name) who murdered Rob and her mother. And i felt no sympathy for the snake that was Littlefinger. She's doing what any brave and valiant man in Westeros would do. Why is she being vilified for it?

No predictions for the ultimate outcome, but a few things I would love to happen:

Arya gets to kill Cersei, with Cersei knowing exactly who Arya is.

The Hound gets to lop off the Mountains head.

Dany manages to get/take control of the ice dragon.

Sam, Gilly and little Sam get to live happily ever after.

But this is GoT and justice rarely gets served.

@Shimy
I love Ayra too! One of my favourite moments is when you realise Ayra and Sansa have out snaked Littlefinger! Go girls!

Yes Habba 3 Cheers for the Stark girls!

What's so wrong with asking for those to bend the knee? The throne is her birthright and all reigning monarchs required the great house to publicly swear their allegiances to the crown by knee bending. Now she's finally in westeros, she needs to quickly determine who are her allies. I can't see the problem.

Male or female, it's all authentically medieval in that if you want to hang onto power you need to be a proper bastard. No one respects or follows the weak. There's no point trying to graft our values onto a mind set from hundreds of years ago.
That said, I'm going to be distraught if anything bad happens to Sam, Gilly or Little Sam ...

Poor Sam is going to be crushed when he finds out how his brother died.

Awks....