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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel sad for the guy in the paternity fraud case

752 replies

moanymoaner · 10/01/2019 12:19

Was watching it on GMB this morning and he was teary , I feel sad for him . I can't imagine finding out when the kids were older that they weren't yours! I get that the boys are standing with their mum but surely they must be feeling cross with her lies :( all such a mess for them :(

OP posts:
TheBigBangRocks · 10/01/2019 17:12

It would be very simple to do, just make a charge for registering a birth and it would include mandatory testing. No extra taxes needed then.

Far better a child knows the truth from the start than grow up living a lie.

Jux · 10/01/2019 17:16

The mother is a bitch of the first order and has been just lining her pockets. Her sons are little better it seems, except possibly for the one who is still in contact with the dad.

The dad has been seriously hurt, and I can certainly understand his wanting redress of some sort, especially as it looks like ex-wifey has also alienated her sons from their dad through omission, at least.

ohreallyohreallyoh · 10/01/2019 17:18

the value to the men who found out they were mislead by one they loved and trusted would be priceless

But at what cost to the majority of women who are very clear who the father of their children is? A government-backed policy which sends the message ‘all women are slags and can’t be trusted’. Fabulous.

Sends an important message to Mother's not to lie to their partners about the paternity of their children

See above.

I think the real issue we face in our society is the number of fathers who choose not to support their children. The statistics on that are astonishing. But hey ho, he can say ‘but it might not be mine’ and the ball’s in her court to prove otherwise and even when she does that, she still has to the face the ‘no smoke without fire’ whispers. Oh misogyny is alive and well on this thread, eh?

badlydrawnperson · 10/01/2019 17:19

If you can't get the basics of internet debating, you will really keep getting your arse handed to you

Hey everyone, over here, @floribunda18 is in charge of the basics of internet debating - hopefully s/he will be able to start a masterclass for the rest of us soon.

floribunda18 · 10/01/2019 17:21

Someone is certainly doing a masterclass in sockpuppetry.

badlydrawnperson · 10/01/2019 17:21

@ohreallyohreallyoh 100% agree - I am really fucking sick of the attitude that all of us must do (insert draconian idea here - ID cards, fingerprints. DNA etc) because a small number of people keep doing shitty things. It is bollocks.

Sonneedshelp · 10/01/2019 17:21

@badlydrawnperson GrinGrin

badlydrawnperson · 10/01/2019 17:23

@floribunda18 Keep it up - I am getting close to the full set on my cliche bingo card. Loving your instructions to the whole internet, fabulous.

Lbwestf123 · 10/01/2019 17:24

By some people’s logic on this board if your baby is swapped at birth with another. The mother shouldn’t care about it being her biological child she should just be grateful and not sue the hospital.

Sonneedshelp · 10/01/2019 17:25

think the real issue we face in our society is the number of fathers who choose not to support their children. The statistics on that are astonishing. But hey ho, he can say ‘but it might not be mine’ and the ball’s in her court to prove otherwise and even when she does that, she still has to the face the ‘no smoke without fire’ whispers. Oh misogyny is alive and well on this thread, eh?

I totally agree is disgraceful that fathers are not paying for their children, inexcusable and they are a disgrace.

But that doesn't detract from this "woman" and any others doing the same being equally as disgraceful! The BIO father never paid a penny to these children, he should be paying retrospectively, but she doesn't want to disclose him? The fact is that this is not just about money it's about emotions for the children and non bio family.

Wherearemymarbles · 10/01/2019 17:28

Wouldn’t surprise me if the oldest has a different father to the others. Press said he didnt submit for testing, if i read correctly.
Personally i think he was right to ask for money back. I dont agree with the way he has gone about it, i suspect mainly to shame his wife. The kids unfortunately aren’t the 1st and wont be the last to be the victims of warring parents.

Sonneedshelp · 10/01/2019 17:29

@Wherearemymarbles I also voiced that down thread!

badlydrawnperson · 10/01/2019 17:32

This bloke (the infertile "Dad") was on the radio earlier.

He was challenged on a couple of points that have been raised here -

He says he kept pursuing the Mother because (according to him and if I recall it correctly) she had continued in the face of all evidence to the contrary to refuse to accept he wasn't the father up until about 3 weeks ago.

He says he's keeping the money he recovered for his children to use for University or a house deposit etc.

JamieVardysHavingAParty · 10/01/2019 17:33

At present, the estimate is 2%. www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi4qZam3uPfAhUKbBoKHUZvAPMQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Ffamily%2Fparenting%2Fone-in-50-british-fathers-unknowingly-raise-another-mans-child%2F&psig=AOvVaw0yEUOjKLP3uY0EP19HNjJy&ust=1547227652495216

It used to be claimed to be 10%. Last time we had a discussion like this, someone said the old statistical estimates of how many fathers weren't fathers (the 1 in 10 figure) were extrapolated from the cases where men had challenged paternity, and requested DNA testing.

That was definitely not representative sampling! Ludicrous to exclusively use data from families where the men had doubts.

Interesting thing that I have wondered ever since: if 90% of men who demanded DNA tested were proven to be the actual father, how come the focus was on the 10% who were right, and not the 90% who were wrong?

floribunda18 · 10/01/2019 17:39

I'm sure everyone is enjoying your fascinating contribution to the thread, badly drawn, which was to dredge up a comment from two hours ago, a conversation between two different posters, in order to make a personal attack, which is nothing to do with the thread topic?

Can you really not just leave it alone, so other people can make new and valid points? Seriously. This is quite a good debate, with many people making valid points, and I don't want to see it deleted as the debate disappears into personal insults.

FromEden · 10/01/2019 17:40

Sorry I haven't read the full thread but has DNA testing actually been done or is he just assuming based on the fact that apparently he was told there is a 98% chance he isnt the father? I saw a photo of them when they were younger and the oldest child looks a lot like him.

TootTootPeanutbutter · 10/01/2019 17:47

DNA tests were carried out.

GySgtHartman · 10/01/2019 17:52

By some people’s logic on this board if your baby is swapped at birth with another. The mother shouldn’t care about it being her biological child she should just be grateful and not sue the hospital.

I think this comment has nailed it. If you have grown a child inside of you you will always be 100% certain it's yours in a way men can't be. Therefore in this situation mothers will likely be thinking of their children and that's where your empathy/sympathy will lie.

I think if you were to imagine what it was like to bring up a child and then find out it wasn't yours you would be inclined to take action against the hospital. Thus giving the children the impression that money is more important than them. As with this case the child will have done nothing wrong. Certainly nothing to deserve losing the man they loved and believed is their father.

I can't imagine the combination of betrayal and the feeling that he's lost "his" children all in a oner for him to deal with.

Shitmewithyourrhythmstick · 10/01/2019 17:53

Cost of childbirth is approx £1600-1800 per birth on the NHS. Cost of a DNA paternity test is currently £100-200, and would drop dramatically with economies of scale. No significant taxes or cuts would be necessary to fund this, and the value to the men who found out they were mislead by one they loved and trusted would be priceless

The costs of births are irrelevant. This would be an extra cost and one that isn't impacted by the state spending money on other things that aren't DNA tests.

Even if we charitably assume that economies of scale would allow a decent system to work for, say, £75 per child, there are about 700,000 live births in the UK each year. That's £52.5 million before we even get onto the inevitable issues with fuck ups because they will happen when humans are involved and if it got outsourced to the lowest provider which it would. I can see the compensation awards now. The reality is that many of us feel that money could be used much more beneficially elsewhere.

Your use of the terms significant and priceless are value judgements specific to you only. I for one am not willing to spend money that could be more usefully placed elsewhere on something that is already available to individuals and that also carries considerable potential for invasion of privacy and fuck ups.

It would be very simple to do, just make a charge for registering a birth and it would include mandatory testing. No extra taxes needed then.

That sounds like a superb way to price the poor out of registering their children promptly. Even charitably using that £75 figure I mentioned, you're talking about a sum some people just don't have.

Whenever this idea comes up, there are always people proposing it like it's some blasé easy thing, and they've clearly given no real thought to how it would actually work. The fact that anyone thinks it's acceptable to push the costs of their shit idea onto the general population is astonishing, really. If a man wants a DNA test now he can get one. He can do that without obliging me and my family to pay for something we neither want nor need.

But even setting that aside, there's so little insight shown into the reality that for this sort of thing to have any real teeth, the state would end up with access to the DNA of most men in the long run, and that's going to require coercion. It's so very open to abuse. I could name any bloke I wanted as one of a number of potential fathers and I could make him give his DNA away, regardless of whether he wants to or not. There would be nothing to prevent me from doing that every time I have a child, and you cannot sanction this because deterring a woman from naming any potential father means more children won't get the DNA proof some of you seem to think so essential.

When it comes down to it, it's an expense that would have to be paid for from somewhere, it would either be state funding or obligatory universal private funding for something that individual men can already arrange for themselves, it would require the compulsory handing over of DNA of children whose parents don't want it and men who don't want to be involved either, and there's no way of knowing whether the suffering caused by the inevitable mix ups will be any less than the suffering caused by lies now.

Basically, it's a fucking shit idea.

badlydrawnperson · 10/01/2019 17:54

@loribunda18. Thanks for telling me how to contribute, noted. You may notice I have made some other, relevant contributions based on my interest in the topic. I am sorry you thought I was making a "personal attack" because I really wasn't, I was having a laugh.

Dalia1989 · 10/01/2019 18:00

The mother is a bitch of the first order and has been just lining her pockets. Her sons are little better it seems, except possibly for the one who is still in contact with the dad.

What have her sons done wrong? They didn't choose to be born, and didn't lie to their father. From what I can gather, the poor kids cut contact with their dad due to the toxic nature of his interactions with them, so he found a new way to punish them.

Re: mandatory DNA testing - I suggest that once the government has introduced a method of collecting child support along the lines of student loan collection or income tax - you know, taken from salary prior to tax, based in income declared to inland revenue, not let slide - and there are no children being left in poverty by their fathers, we can look at paternity fraud. A 2008 study in the United Kingdom found that biological fathers were misidentified in 0.2% (1 in 500) of the cases processed by the Child Support Agency according to wikipedia, which doesn't strike me as the kind of sweeping issue that demands a multi-million pound NHS budget.

badlydrawnperson · 10/01/2019 18:06

I'd like to agree with the comments saying we should get a grip on child maintenance before we start looking at paternity fraud.

In fact, the one might help with the other.

TatianaLarina · 10/01/2019 18:07

There is no standard figure people use your common sense. It depends on the study.

floribunda18 · 10/01/2019 18:10

Thanks, badlydrawn. Let's just move on.

thedancingbear · 10/01/2019 18:15

Jesus H. Only on MN could the man be held to be the baddie in this situation.

Absolutely batshit crazy.

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