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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

re school exclusion

516 replies

mummy207 · 09/01/2019 20:31

I posted a while back about my DS being inappropriate at school, he asked a teacher to add him on snapchat and was isolated for it. The reactions on here were split between whether this was an overreaction by the school or acceptable. I accepted it and sanctioned him at home and fully supported the school after reading all of your helpful responses. Lots of teachers responded.

Unfortunately today there has been a follow up and I have been told my son needs to be excluded tomorrow and stay at home. I totally agree he is being absolutely unacceptable , he apparently lifted his top up and asked the teacher whether she liked his abs. I know it's fucking insane, don't get me started.

They have said because this is his second "Sexually inappropriate offense" (question whether the snapchat thing was sexually inappropriate!!) , he needs an external exclusion which will go on his record. Although I agree he is in the wrong, this again to me seems really ridiculous. What is making him sit at home all day going to achieve? He will be on xbox! Also some of his peers have had several fights, bullying, etc and not been excluded. Exclusions are really rare. I am absolutely devastated. Is there anything I can do about this? It says on the paperwork I can challenge the exclusion?

OP posts:
GreenTulips · 09/01/2019 22:11

If you hadn’t thought to remove his xbox tomorrow can we all assume he’s sat playing in it now?

If you expect him to skype DH he would need WiFi? Which he can watch Netflix or use a tablet - one of the other kids ones?

Come on - deal with it - he’ll be in the real world soon!!

mummy207 · 09/01/2019 22:15

Off to bed in a min but thanks for all the replies (apart from people who suggest my son is soon to be a rapist. sidenote, actually text DH to tell him to get his arse back to england because our son is becoming a sexual predator, and he replied "get the fuck off mumsnet" - thats meant to be tongue in cheek btw)

He is not on xbox this evening, xbox is in the lounge anyway and he's been in his room. I also took his phone off him. I told him to read a book! I can't take tomorrow off work this late notice but I will see if I can leave early. I will have a proper talk to him tomorrow, and I would like dh to as well. I do take on board what you are all saying.

I don't actually check his phone, no. What are you suggesting I would find???

OP posts:
SillySallySingsSongs · 09/01/2019 22:18

I don't think it is a joking or tongue in cheek matter tbh.

Travisandthemonkey · 09/01/2019 22:26

Nice that you and your husband think it’s a joking matter.

I encountered many boys like yours at school and yes they did turn out to be sex pests with no respect for boundaries

MissMarplesKnitting · 09/01/2019 22:28

You're still not taking it seriously.

I know someone on the SOR.

His issues started as a teen and were minimised by his parents. He is currently serving time.

Get this sorted now whilst you still can, and get DS back on the straight and narrow.

MultitaskerExtraordinaire · 09/01/2019 22:29

This is what it looks like when students bully teachers.

His motives are absolutely nothing to do with attraction to this teacher but entirely about power.

His aim is to forcibly take the power in the room from the teacher. His chosen method is to sexually harass her.

There is a dynamic here that is particularly relevant in a school setting, by exposing his body in front of her he actually puts her in danger of being accused of inappropriate conduct.

His aim is to humiliate, embarrass, threaten and intimidate her, because it makes him feel good.

He is enjoying it and your concern should be in finding out what his true motivations are. Does he lack self esteem so this is a fast track to peer attention? Or does he genuinely enjoy seeing someone else humiliated?

Yabbers · 09/01/2019 22:35

This is what it looks like when students bully teachers.
Also what it looks like when his parents make a joke about it.

OP, do you think all sexual predators started out full on attacking women? Or perhaps with some low level harassment in their teens which they got away with?

Madders45 · 09/01/2019 22:36

I don't actually check his phone, no. What are you suggesting I would find???

Pornography.

Handprints2018 · 09/01/2019 22:36

I'd take the Xbox now mummy207. Change the WiFi code.

Im not sure if it still exists but years ago my friend read the everyday sexism posts and it completely shamed him to read about such things and have just thought some things were banter and not harmful. The posts from young teens really shocked him. Perhaps reading something like that may make your son realise how he has been.

You also must realise this is not your son's friends instigating or pushing. Your son is actively doing this and leading his friends not following. He obviously doesn't and didn't care what you said before, now you must get tough with him.

LovingLola · 09/01/2019 22:37

Just knew you would say you don’t check his phone.
You may find penis pictures that he has sent to girls.
You may find coercive messages he has sent to girls asking them to send him nude pictures.
You may find that he is bullying or threatening people.
Use your intelligence and fucking figure it out
People like you make me despair

titchy · 09/01/2019 22:40

I don't actually check his phone, no. What are you suggesting I would find???

There almost certainly will be:
Nude photos, probably of one of his peers that have been circulated round all the boys;
Snapchat/other app chats stating how he'd give x one and how y needs a good fuck to straighten her out;
Exaggerated chats amongst his lad mates of what he did to one of the girls;
Extremely derogatory messages about girls and women in general;
Possibly some coercive messages to the girls in his year - send us a photo type stuff.

Lads who behave as your ds has done are NOT respectful to females, and are utterly appalling when they chat to their male friends.

Madders45 · 09/01/2019 22:42

thanks for all the replies (apart from people who suggest my son is soon to be a rapist

Statistically speaking, some boys will turn out to be rapists.

Do you think it’s more likely to be the ones who always treated their female teachers with respect, or the ones who sexually harassed their female teachers in an attempt to disrupt the teachers’ authority and exert their power?

titchy · 09/01/2019 22:42

In fact if you're so sure there's nothing concerning on his phone, go and ask him for it now and see what his reaction is.

Foxyloxy1plus1 · 09/01/2019 22:44

I hope you now realise that the exclusion is completely justified and that your son has done something designed to intimidate a teacher. I’m guessing she is young and may be inexperienced, although that’s an assumption on my part.

He either doesn’t understand the harm his actions are causing, or he does understand and is showing off and being deliberately provocative. How would you feel if someone in your workplace behaved in that way.

The point about an exclusion is that it is designed to be a wake up call to the student that things are serious and they’re on a slippery slope. Schools really have very little sanction they can offer and it’s your responsibility as a parent, to ensure that, when he is excluded, it isn’t a pleasant experience.

I’d be taking away all privileges for longer than a day and ensuring that he writes a proper letter of apology to the teacher. It’s him that should be apologising. He took the threatening action, he needs to make reparation for that.

Lovingbenidorm · 09/01/2019 22:47

This may be totally irrelevant but should he not be sitting his mocks right now?

MitziK · 09/01/2019 22:48

Or, you're a female member of staff. You have a youth who is significantly taller than you and has developed a lot of muscle bulk over the last year. He has already pestered you to add him on Snapchat (knowing that the main appeal of the thing is being able to send images and their then being deleted after a set time) and, despite trying to explain how uncomfortable this behaviour is, the youth convinces his Mum and everybody else that it was 'just a joke'. He's still in your class.

How do you discipline him for such things as no homework? That would mean having him alone in your room after school, which you aren't comfortable with. It's not an offence that warrants a senior team detention, the rules are that it's a teacher/short detention. Hopefully, somebody else fails to hand their homework in at the same time. Or you don't do anything for fear of a) laughing and saying you just want to get him on his own = you are a paedophile b) laughing and saying he can't wait to be alone in a room with you and c) him complaining to his Mum that she's picking on him. You can feel that you haven't got as much authority as a teacher and your skin crawl in the same way it does when a bloke in a pub comes up and tries to get you to give him your number.

It's winter, so it's dark. Most school sites are poorly lit. Is it that creepy kid that sets off your alarm bells over there? You ignore it and try to pretend everything is OK. He's a kid. Just a kid. Don't think about he way he sizes you up and down with his eyes like a fully grown predatory man might. Don't think about it. Pretend it's not happening. Ignore your instincts to escape.

And then the youth gets way too close to you and exposes his body. If he's like most teenagers, his trousers are barely hanging onto his backside at present, so you get a sight of everything to just a short distance above his pubis. You can see whether he has pubic hair that extends above that. He's demanding that you look at him. Other kids are laughing. You can't walk out of class. You've got to request on call assistance and those five minutes are the longest imaginable.

Yes, this isn't necessarily exactly what happened, but the feeling of having somebody be so creepy is just as traumatic when they're 15 as when they're 45 - even more so when you take into account that you could be blamed or accused of leading them on and your career ruined if he takes rejection badly or another youth gossips to their Mum about how their teacher fancies x.

He's been excluded so that she feels safe in her working environment. It's not to inconvenience you or annoy him - it's for her safety. Teachers have been assaulted before. He has deliberately made her feel unsafe by acting in a disrespectful, predatory & overtly sexual way towards her.

The best thing you could do for her feelings of safety is to ask for a managed move. If he stays at the school, even in a different class, he's still there. He could still be around when she's alone in the classroom marking or updating a display at 5pm, there aren't many staff within shouting distance or when she's leaving.

But I'm sure you won't do that - after all, why should he have his exam results potentially damaged for a few minutes of sexual harassment?

I see that you appreciate he has done something wrong, but I don't think you appreciate how much he appears to have scared the teacher concerned - or how sensible the school is in acting upon this immediately.

He needs to not have X Box, phone or internet access (or the gym - he's not supposed to be using weights until he's 16 anyway, according to most gyms). I'm willing to bet that he spends a lot of time accessing pornography that is violent in nature, too.

I hope your OH understands just how bad this is and makes it abundantly clear to him that this is not how you act towards ANY female.

Madders45 · 09/01/2019 22:51

@MitziK

Well said Flowers

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 09/01/2019 22:55

I'm glad you're not letting him be on the Xbox. He should have something boring and/or productive to do. Chores, schoolwork. Writing a letter of apology is good. If at all possible stay at home with him and supervise him. That lets him know just how seriously you take this. Will he have a re-inclusion meeting after his exclusion? Do go to that. As well as taking things away it may do him more good if you make part of his punishment over the next few days be doing something positive and pro-social, like chores, to make up for his anti-social behaviour.

The gym might not be the ideal form of exercise for him. Can you get him to a class or a team? Some physical activity where what he does (and achieves and contributes) is more important than how he looks. Does he do anything helpful - volunteering, Duke of Edinburgh, helping with the younger kids? Might be a way to build up some positive self-respect rather than showing off at the teacher.

You and his father might also need to look at how much parental time and input he is getting and whether it's enough. This is not a criticism, it sounds as if he is more needy than most at the moment, and there might even be an attention-seeking or resentful side to this kind of misbehaviour. My BiL even became a SAHD when his DS turned 13 because he was having some behaviour issues and DSis was in a very long-hours job, I'm not suggesting anything that extreme but it's worth considering how much time your DS is routinely getting from you and his father.

I hope you get on top of this Flowers

sadeyedladyofthelowlands63 · 09/01/2019 22:57

@MitziK I was trying to articulate how I (as a teacher) felt about this, and you did it for me. Thank you.

Wolfiefan · 09/01/2019 22:57

You’re going to “talk” to him? That’ll solve it. Hmm
Take the time off work. Make his shitty behaviour your priority. Don’t wait for DH. Honestly? Sounds like he walks all over you and has learnt he can disrespect women and it won’t matter a bit.

donquixotedelamancha · 09/01/2019 23:05

Although I agree he is in the wrong, this again to me seems really ridiculous.

I teach in a tough school. Even so we very rarely get incidents where a teenage lad is willing to try to sexually intimidate a female teacher to this extent. I think the school is handling it exactly correctly and any good school would do the same.

The female teachers he was doing this to clearly felt it wasn't just silliness, but was highly inappropriate- she was there and you weren't. Your response to his first incident, suggesting it was just naivete, wasn't strong enough. You really do need to ask why he feels it's OK to behave this way. You need to be firm in the immediate sanction but follow up with some serious work about how he views women.

I don't think you appreciate how much he appears to have scared the teacher concerned

I don't think it follows that the teacher is actually intimidated. It may be water off a duck's back, but the fact that some women brush things like this off is often used to minimise these issues. I deal with this sort of stuff very strongly, even when it's easier to ignore and I don't give a crap, because teenaged lads need to learn appropriate boundaries.

TheHodgeoftheHedge · 09/01/2019 23:07

Glad you and your DH still think this is a joke.
People like you really make me want to give up. I’m not surprised in the slightest that you don’t check your kid’s phone. For his own protection, you really shouldn’t be letting any 15 year old have entirely unmonitored access 24/7 to god only knows what. It’s about time you and your Dh stepped up to the plate a bit here and actually took some action and responsibly parent your child.

user1483390742 · 09/01/2019 23:11

Totally inappropriate behaviour from your son- would he have flashed his abs at a male teacher?! Hmm

donquixotedelamancha · 09/01/2019 23:11

You are failing your son, I’m afraid.

I think that's a bit much. Boys learn this sort of behaviour from each other more than from parents. Lots of well brought up kids make poor choices when with their mates.

OP needs to take this more seriously- but it doesn't mean she's been a terrible parent.

Travisandthemonkey · 09/01/2019 23:12

He’s a cool dude and go goes the gym to bulk up. Likes to intimidate women, of course she isn’t going to be the type of parent who looks at his phone.
He’s jack the lad dontcha know Hmm