To think that the uk is a hostile environment for the natives aswell as for immigrants nowadays?

[malificent7]

Well the government have succeeded in one thing; making the uk a hostile place to live for most people what with cuts. Brexit etc. Is it just me or do things feel... tense?

Cos women aren't abused by white men?

White male culture isn't abusive?

Let's look for a culture with systematic abuse how about The Roman Catholic Church?

Different ways, different forms, different cultural norms but men abuse women.

"white men are just as bad and that white European cultures are no better than anywhere else in the world for women to live. Which is fucking insulting nonsense."

White men are just as bad. White men get convicted of these crimes too ( and are over represented as a % of the population among sex offenders)

Abuse of women goes on everywhere, yet you only draw attention to it in an attempt to attack immigration.

What has the fact that women are still abused in white European cultures got to do with recognising that those same cultures are still the best ones to be a woman in ? Why do you deny this ?

European cultures are no better than anywhere else in the world for women to live

I have said absolutely nothing of the sort. You take an argument and then decide what you think someone is going to post and argue based on your suppositions. Suppositions which are usually wrong.

All nuance and detail is lost as you argue in strident tones forcing posters into black and white arguments.

Your form of debate is one of the reasons Brexit has turned toxic. You are either for everything or against everything. No one can be in the middle or have contradictory beliefs they coexist with. You want fingers pointed and dangers drawn.

I give up. You are arguing that culture and ethnicity are irrelevant because white men abuse women and girls too. Is that not what you are telling us all ?

Yet a minority of people of a certain group can't live in the same country as you, and have different views to you?

Of course they can have opposing views. What I mean is that it’s good sense for folks living together to generally agree on a few key issues.

In this country we agree, broadly speaking, that gay people shouldn’t be thrown off buildings, that adulterers shouldn’t be stoned, that FGM is unacceptable, that women can wear whatever they wish, honour killings are unacceptable, And that there is division between church and state.

So wanting Sharia Law in the UK comes into conflict with those ideas.

White men are just as bad. White men get convicted of these crimes too ( and are over represented as a % of the population among sex offenders)

No, this is false. If you really think it true that white European cultures are no better than anywhere else in the world for women then your previous arguments now all make perfect sense to me.

European culture is significantly the best place for the vast majority of women at the moment, in terms of legal rights. The EU has helped and promoted those beliefs. There are exceptions i would be happy to discuss. If anyone has different experiences that would be interesting.

Some immigrants have different beliefs that are problematical however, these beliefs are changed and adapted over time. Successive waves of immigration into the U.K. shows how the majority of most groups assimilate into British culture.

We learn from them, they learn from us. A symbiotic relationship develops that is of benefit to everyone. This does not happen overnight like any relationship it takes time and effort but in the end it benefits everyone.

Division between church an state?

In the U.K.?

Are you joking?

"What I mean is that it’s good sense for folks living together to generally agree on a few key issues. "

Adn the majority of people of Islamic faith agree with you.

Your points about Sharia law are incorrect, there are different interpretations of it, that is the most fundamentalist, no where did it say that people wanted fundamentalist sharia law, that's a different question.

"You are arguing that culture and ethnicity are irrelevant because white men abuse women and girls too. Is that not what you are telling us all ?"

When using the arguments that you have in order to object to immigration? Yes.

"No, this is false."

In the UK white men are over represented, by a long way, as a % of the population who are sex offenders.

It's funny, in the Elizabethan era we had exactly the same problem with the Moors coming over here with their Muslim beliefs and their dusky skin tones, filling our towns and taking our jobs.

Hundreds of years later we've ended up with another Elizabeth on the throne and another attempt to throw out the Muslims.

In four hundred years they haven't 'taken us over' so why would they now? People never really change.

And the majority of people of Islamic faith agree with you

We should get along well then.

Your points about Sharia law are incorrect, there are different interpretations of it, that is the most fundamentalist, no where did it say that people wanted fundamentalist sharia law, that's a different question

Well that’s the problem - there are different interpretations. It is the most fundamentalist, but it’s incompatible with our beliefs in this country. What kind would they like? You don’t know.

At what point does it become irrelevant then Boris, when they enter UK airspace ?

The beliefs of a liberal democracy are at odds with the extremes of all religions.

@Moussemoose

There we agree on something!

@Kismetjayn

It’s not quite the same situation, is it? We’re not comparing like with like. It’s hard to underestimate how Christian this country was in those times. It informed every aspect of people’s lives, and Christianity itself was going through a period of enormous change. So when she called for their deportation, it was because they were “infidels, having no understanding of Christ or his Gospel.”

"It is the most fundamentalist, but it’s incompatible with our beliefs in this country. What kind would they like? You don’t know."

Neither do you, as the most fundamentalist beliefs are held by a small fraction of all Muslims globally, you could extrapolate and say its most likely a small fraction here.

You are really clutching at straws putting the situation in Glasgow down to religion. It is not sectarianism that was the source of the problem FFS.

mirialis

Have you ever been to Glasgow or spent much time in the west of Scotland ? If you had you would not be apoplectic at the statement that religious "strife" was the cause of quite possibly the majority of violence there. But go on then, what caused it ?

I don't recall religious reasons being given for Glasgow's murder rate, more poverty and gangs. In fact Elon go find evidence that Glasgow's murder rate was sectarian related.

And my point was that Glasgow is hardly a poster child for tolerance of mass immigration of people from different religions is it ? But you knew that surely. Sectarianism is hardly a trivial issue there, as you no doubt no.

BorisBogtrotter

That Glasgow has had serious and tragic problems with sectarian violence over the last century is controversial is it ? Jesus wept.

"Sadly, many immigrants and migrants who now come here only come for all the freebies they can get"

Yet immigrants are under represented on all benefit claimants counts, especially when adjusted for working age.

"Many come from a violent religion that seeks to dominate and conquer all lands. Who cause destruction and wreak havoc, abuse young children, and women, behead, kill..."

Utterly ridiculous point, in fact your whole point is riddled with inaccuracies.

"That Glasgow has had serious and tragic problems with sectarian violence over the last century is controversial is it ?"

Yet it had nothing to do with the city being Europe's murder capital, which was the point a previous OP made. Please do try to keep up,.