Mother of the groom .. wedding seating plan

[Watershipdrown]

Sorry but this may turn into an essay as I don’t want to drip feed.
Ds is getting married in 3 months time and was discussing the seating plan with his ds asking where she would like to sit etc. It came out that I am apparently sitting on the top table with exh next to me, as parents of the groom. Exh and I have been divorced for 23 years and I have been remarried to a wonderful man for 20 years. I haven’t spoken to exh in probably 15 years after police involvement for harassing me and making threats. My dh raised my 3 children as his own and we also have a son together. He has always treated the children as if they were his own, providing everything that they needed and wanted, while exh couldn’t even be bothered to keep up contact with them, despite living 20 mins drive away from us. Exh did not contribute anything in terms of maintenance for them, he did not turn up for visits and at one point told my dh to legally adopt them so that he would not be responsible for any money that they might need, all the while demanding a say in ridiculous things such as if they needed a haircut, I was expected to ask permission. Exh was controlling and physically and emotionally abusive and I was honestly relieved that he couldn’t be bothered to keep up contact, however I never tried to stop him, even though I probably should have. He was never threatening to the children but they witnessed some of his dv towards me. There was very little contact until ds was over 18 and could go into a pub and drink alcohol. They have built a shaky relationship now and I’m fine with that.
I am really hurt that dh has been relegated to a table with some other relatives and I really do not want to sit next to my exh at all. Dh is unaware of the seating plan and I can’t bring myself to tell him. I know how much he will be hurt and shocked as they have always had a great relationship.
I have tried to speak to ds about this and explain how uncomfortable this will be, but he’s adamant that it’s traditional and how they (Dil and ds) want it. I have said I would be fine not being on the top table, or exh and his partner being on it and dh and me perhaps at the other end but he will not change the plans. Dd has now fallen out with ds over this and told him just how wrong and incredibly inconsiderate it is to treat dh this way.
I know it’s their wedding and they can do what they like, seat people wherever they want etc. I know how hard it is to seat everyone and please everyone, but I do not want to be seated apart from dh to sit next to a man that made my life a living hell for years. AIBU ?

Just go mother of the groom on his arse and tell him if he doesn’t change it you won’t go.

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You have Bride & Groomzilla on your hands, they are being utterly selfish & unreasonable. Your DS is an adult, he has absolutely no excuse for not understanding what is wrong with this seating plan & neither does his wife to be.

If my adult kids were this hurtful & selfish, it would be change it, or I really wouldn't be going.

I hope you get it sorted out & fast. YADNBU

And please don't try and drag DIL's parents into it - you'll just be perceived to be creating a massive drama.

Given that he's about to become a married man, he's old enough to be told exactly what your marriage was like. I would tell him that you cannot sit next to him and if that part of the wedding is unchanged you and DH will duck out for the meal.

To be honest if he's insisting you sit with him after knowing what happened then there is more to worry about than a seating plan.

Be direct and truthful, dont sugarcoat, tell them exactly what he used to do, black eyes? bruises when he would grab your arm, punches in the tummy cause the bruises dont show, pinching when in public? etc, lay it out and say that you can not and will not sit on the same table as him let alone next to him and let them know if they cant be understanding weather or not you can attend the dinner part of the wedding

"I would tell him that you cannot sit next to him and if that part of the wedding is unchanged you and DH will duck out for the meal."

And in doing so, let her ex win...

OP has seemingly had to bite her tongue for years as her DS has a relationship with his dad. His wedding isn't the time to decide to make a stand IMO.

I agree that if the OP's son knows the details of the abuse etc then he's been awful. However OP has suggested that he doesn't, so giving him the benefit of the doubt, issuing ultimatums and threats won't help the situation.

Levi’s, I was the person that suggested saying -as one possibility- “I don't want to be in a position where I may need to call the police" and I can see why you think it may be a bad idea.

However, I want to explain why I said it. The bride and groom may not know that the OP hasn’t spoken to the ex in 15 years and that the police were involved at the point due to harassment and threats. That is not knowledge that small children should have but they are adults now and can be told. As forum readers, we don’t know the full extent of the harassment and threats (that phrase covers a hell of a lot). We do know that the OP is seriously uncomfortable at the idea of sitting next to her ex for a couple of hours. It suggests to me that it was pretty serious. It is possible that she has overblown the situation in the last 15 years and that the ex is as nice as pie now and will be Prince Charming on his son’s wedding day. It is also possible he won’t be, particularly after a few drinks toasting the bride and groom.

The last time she spoke to him police were involved. Bride and groom need to know that and be prepared.

Do you have a close relative who knew what happened (an Uncle or Aunt or even Godparent of your ds) who might talk to him about what actually happened ? Explains to him that - because he (ds) was so little at the time, he was protected from so much of what happened, but now he is a man, he needs to know the truth, and the whole truth, and understand quite how much you have protected him from that over the years, and maybe even o point out what a fantastic job your dh has done?
I think if your ds was only 4 at the time, the posters saying he's being a selfish b*d are being over dramatic. I don't blame your ds. Your ds probably genuinely has no idea of the fear and pain you suffered (even before the lack of support for him growing up). It is a natural thing for any person to want to meet their natural parent, and he (your ex) presumably can be charming enough when he wants to be, so your ds has blanked out the early years (I can't remember much in my life before I was about 7, and I have no trauma I'd want to block out).

Whether it is you or another trusted adult who knew the truth at the time and has seen your pain over the years, Someone needs to let your ds know the facts and then hope that he can see the seating plan can't remain as it is.

oh and btw... its kinda of fucken insulting that they are sidelining the man who paid for his upbringing for the abusive bastard who didnt
( and the man who cared for them, the man who took them on as his own, the man who has supported them mentally and im sure financially all their lives, the man who has been their holding their hands when needed, giving out hugs when needed etc etc the man who was their father voluntarily)

I would insist that either they move you around so you aren’t sitting together or you will be sitting at a regular table with your husband.

Good luck with the chat.

Returningtothesceneofthecrime - if the OP's DS doesn't know the extent of the abuse she suffered, I'd recommend telling him for sure.

But I think making statements like "I don't want to be in a position where I may need to call the police" is just very inflammatory and dramatic, and likely to aggravate the situation. Especially if, in fairness to her DS, he wasn't aware of the extent of the abuse until now.

OP it seems that you are more upset at your dh not being at the top table as opposed to sitting beside your ex? If that is the case then I think YABU.
My dm remarried and I know for a fact that she would have wanted my SF to be at the top table as to all intents and purposes he raised me. I however would not have wanted that as I never looked at him as a father figure and it would have felt really wrong and ruined my day. I knew this would be a huge issue so I went away to get married.

As others have said your ds may not be aware of the abuse and as he wasn't (I'm assuming) abused then he does not see that side of his DF and may have a good relationship with him and want him rather than your DH beside him. I don't think this is a case of him being groomzilla at all.

To be fair, most people would want to sit with their partner during a wedding, especially for moral support when their abusive Ex is attending.

I'm so glad the time of this thread changed, can't believe so.e people thought this was ok.

but he only has one dad and that is who he wants at the top table for his wedding. It’s his wedding and his big day,

^ utter shite. It takes a lot more than the ability to pro create to be a dad.

Elvis, on its own it is inflammatory and dramatic, definitely think the groom (and bride) deserve an explanation to make it less so.

"To be fair, most people would want to sit with their partner during a wedding"

Why? Are people incapable of conversation without the supervision of their partners? As long as you're with some people you know, what's the problem?

We didn't have our best man's partner on our top table. Partner was sat with a table full of other friends - no issue.

This is the kind of thing that I do think crosses a line into people just being whiney and demanding. I can manage a meal without the reassurance of my partner right next to me, thanks very much. Get a grip.

"Elvis, on its own it is inflammatory and dramatic, definitely think the groom (and bride) deserve an explanation to make it less so."

Just no need to say it IMO. Focus on the facts and why OP feels the way she does. No need to speculate about what might happen and whether the OP may need to call the police to her son's wedding reception.

THIS is why the word tradition was banned at our wedding.

We did some traditional things of course, but we just picked and chose as we liked. Tradition is a horrible reason to treat people you love badly.

In terms of old fashioned and traditional etiquette, (OP did say they used tradition as justification for the seating plan), a husband and wife should always be seated at the same table but not actually seated next to one another. I think newlyweds were seated together until their first anniversary and then rated apart - perhaps people assumed they wouldn’t have anything new or interesting to talk about by then? 😂

Even if OPs ds doesn’t know the extent of the abuse he does know his mum doesn’t want to sit next to him, that they are divorced, and they haven’t spoken for years. If your mum says ‘I don’t want to sit next to my ex at your wedding’ it takes a special kind of arsehole to say ‘I don’t give a shit what you want.’ He knows they have an awful relationship. Exactly what level of abuse does he think his mum should suffer before given the courtesy of not having to sit with him?

It takes a lot more than the ability to pro create to be a dad

The thing is though that might be very subjective. My SF 'raised' me as in I lived with him from the age of 7, he paid half the bills, we went on holiday and all of the things that families do. I never considered him to be my dad or a father figure. We barely spoke. My DM would have a very different take on our relationship though.

He might just be using the 'traditional' line because he knows OP will want her DH there and the ds doesn't.

JamAtkins - unless there are extenuating circumstances (e.g. abuse as OP alludes to), I think that otherwise unfriendly exes should suck it up on their kids' wedding days.

If a person just wants their mum and dad who they love sat with them on their wedding day (perhaps to mirror their other half's parents), why should the rights of their bickering parents take precedent?

If the OP's son doesn't know about the extent of what went on and has a relationship with his dad, it's not unreasonable for him to want both at the top table. If the OP has been or goes on to be explicit about her objections and he DS refuses to budge - he's a bastard.

OP, in response to previous posters children under the age of four are very much aware and heightened to domestic abuse. The issue is that your son seems to have wedding fever and is blind to others feelings and the practicalities. Of course you will attend with DH but if the top table arrangement does not work for you both then you can sit elsewhere. Point this out to your son, that is totally reasonable. No one else really cares if the top table follows tradition and the main thing is that you and your DH are there and celebrating the day.

Just another example of men thinking they can dictate what women should do. Just say no, I am not sitting next to a man who abused and harrassed me. And repeat . . .

Not realising sensitivities over your ex sitting next to you is one thing, but it would have been easier to split the parents and it's nasty that he didn't do that when you asked. He's also being incredibly rude to his stepfather by leaving him out. I don't understand the motivation, surely the couple should want everyone to sit where there's least drama and most fun. Sorry, not helpful. Can someone else get through to him?

Who do you think is the 'originator' of wanting everything 'traditional'? Do you think this is coming more from your DS or your future DiL. Either way, it's totally unreasonable to expect any person to sit next to their abuser.

As others have said, it's time to come clean with DS about the extent of the abuse. If, after you do, he still insists you sit next to your ex, then you have a bigger problem than you realize.

If after every argument has been exhausted you can't change their minds and you decide to attend, I'd sit for 5 minutes in my 'assigned seat' and then get up and 'mingle' squeeze in my DP's table for the rest of the party, even if I had to miss the meal to do so.