Would you pay back this 10k?

[cantchooseyourfamily]

I'm looking for some advice, I was really ill over the last few years and managed to get treatment overseas that cost almost £50,000. The treatment was somewhat experimental at the time but is now available on the NHS, however I couldn't afford to wait and see if it would start being offered on the NHS so we made the decision that we would pay and I would go abroad for it.

Before I went for the treatment I wasn't sure about going, was worried about leaving my children and was also worried because I was about £10,000 short with being able to pay for it. DH and I have good jobs and are very lucky, we would have been able to get hold of the last 10k within a few months and were prepared to wait until we had it before I went ahead.

However, my mother offered to give me the remaining money and was insistent it was a gift, I asked several times over the following months if I should pay it back and she was insistent that it was fine, it was a gift, she wanted to help, etc. At that point we had the 10k and could have given it back, no issue.

Not that it necessarily matters but she's fairly well off with different companies and a few properties. This all happened over a year ago, I've moved on, am doing well health wise and have not thought about the money much, other than to feel grateful. Now out of nowhere she has messaged saying she's having business problems and wants the money back. I'm so upset, I hadn't factored this in, have my own stuff going on have made investments and purchases this year that I would not have done had I thought this was a loan rather than a gift. If I don't give it to her the family fall out will be huge, with my sister's and mother likely disowning me. On the other hand I think it's a rubbish way to treat me. There's so much more to the backstory but I wasn't raised by my mum and had very little to do with her until I was in my 20's, didn't meet my sister's until they were older and so on. I'm quite sure this would be the end of our fragile relationship but don't know if it might be for the best anyway. I couldn't imagine gifting my children a house deposit or sum of money to help with there wedding or medical treatment and then asking for it back a year later.

I'm very upset and wondering if I should just pay it back or not?

I also can't help remembering times over the last few years when she has paid for very expensive holidays and bought cars and things for her other children, none of which bothered me at the time, I didn't need anything from her and am a bit older. I can't help thinking she won't be asking for those gifts back from her other children and it's just another way in which I'm treated very differently.

She’s your mum for heaven’s sake

In name only, she didn't raise OP, therefore, OP has no moral obligation to her.

This is why it is always a good idea to draw up a written contract when loaning or borrowing money with both parties signing to say that they understand the deal.

But it wasn't a fucking loan! Do you draw up contracts when you get given gifts for birthdays or Christmas?

A gift is a gift and most parents would move heaven and earth for their children especially where illness is concerned and even if said child is an adult. However she has asked for it back and l would give it purely because l wouldn't want to be indebted to her. But her behaviour is absolutely terrible. I would have nc after this. I'm so sorry this has happened to you.

Wow, what a bitch! If my DS needed money for a medical reason I would gift it without any expectation of return. But then, I am his mum. Not just some woman who happened to give birth to him.

From a mother perspective, she might really
Need the money and asking you may have been her last resort and he may feel
Ashamed but desperate as in a sticky situation somewhere...

im shocked shes asked after giving you a gift and it being because you were ill , if itd been for a luxury item then yeh i could understand , if theres nothing in writing to say it was a loan then she cant take it further but if she insists on it back then a £1 a week should suffice good luck

The way it's been handled is undoubtedly poor.

Having said that, your attitude is a bit 'i'm alright, Jack'. Whether the 10k was intended as a gift or not, she's now so desperate that she's had to ask for the favour repaying. It's a shame, not something to feel personally wronged by.

I know you've offered to repay in installments, but how much and how often was offered? Given how you've said you're in a position to raise funds relatively quickly, I don't understand how a repayment plan could be so offensive...

If you have proof (texts emails) where she says its a gift etc then thats it. It dorsnt sound she will treat you nicely anyway - if to compare generousity towards other children etc I wouldnt dwell on that relationship. If you have no proof it was a gift she can not only “disown” you but take you to the court so best if you start paying back as much as you can. She has no foot to stand on in court if she wants it any faster etc as surely she has no agreement when and how the whole amount was agreed to be paid back?

Well, the only 'problem' is that you have now (by text) 'agreed' to repay the money in installments so I expect they'll all feel that you should repay it since you've 'technically' agreed to do so. But after her arsey comment, I'd now be tempted to tell her to go whistle for it.

Before I replied to her, I think the first thing I would have decided is how 'valuable' the relationship with your mother and your maternal family were to me. If I decided I could live without them I simply would have said "It was a gift. Gifts don't need repaying" or possibly say I can repay it at £50/month and considered the relationship over.

But if I valued my relationship with them, I'd pay it back either in a lump sum or the largest payments I could afford, but I would NOT deplete my savings nor take out a loan to repay it.

Polarbearkshire that's not how it works. You don't need to have any proof that it was a gift. The mother would need to have proof that it was a loan.

"if she insists on it back then a £1 a week should suffice"

That would take 192 years to pay back

But it wasn't a fucking loan! Do you draw up contracts when you get given gifts for birthdays or Christmas?

I'm starting wonder going on some of these replies. When a gift isn't really a gift

Tell your mother to fuck off, pay it back in installments and never accept a 'gift' from her again. I'm sorry man she sounds like a cock.

She should have factored in how to finance the big contract, not tap her eldest daughter.

longwayoff
Are you the mother?

My thoughts exactly on both counts!

Wow! What a horrible situation for you OP.

Wouldn’t she have to provide proof in the form of some sort of contract that the money was given as a loan not a gift. So legally I doubt she’d have a leg to stand on (this is my legal knowledge according to Judge Rinder, so cant say I know this for certain! )

I’d have advised not to pay the money back as it was a gift. And had she approached you differently about it then maybe you would have tried to help her out anyway.

However after your latest updates, I’d feel inclined to just give the money back to her so you have no ties and tell her to shove it. Then go NC and not have anything more to do with her.

Can you afford to pay ANY of it back?

I can see both sides; She did give it as a gift at a time she thought she wouldn't need it again, and I understand your ire but her circumstances have now changed.

She's asking because she needs your help as you did hers so it's time to at least attempt to repay the favour: Love, forgiveness and help goes both ways.

She's made her mistakes in the past and you chose to forgive her and forge a relationship with her so you can't now throw the past at her because you don't want to give the money back.

If it's a struggle financially then tell her that but make the effort to pay something.

If you genuinely don't have it, that's one thing but if you do and don't want to then that's a different matter entirely.

It was a gift. If she needs your help she should ask, but that 10k is gone.

Sounds to me as if you are being drawn in to the fallout of their failed marriage. Blame is probably being thrown around between the pair of them and this gift to you is one of the weapons being used.

She probably doesn’t need the money as you say but her husband has maybe brought this up in an argument about finances.

Families eh

I have the same 'condition' as you OP and have been thinking about privately funding the same treatment (I'm newish to dx and need to try other alternatives before I can get it funded on the NHS).

I would need to borrow about the same as you needed. I know full well my parents would gift me the money. In my circumstance if they then needed my financial help I would obviously help them right back. However, you situation is so very different.. I've never felt second best to my siblings neither would my parents me only asking me for money - all the siblings would be chipping in.

In your situation I wouldn't pay it back. It was a gift. Now you need to decide if you want to help your mum out financially - see it as a separate transaction. If I had your mum, i wouldn't be helping her. She doesn't deserve it.

I hope you don't get too stressed over this and cause a relapse. Its not worth it.

May be completely wrong here but.. do you think because she wasn't there for you when you were younger she saw the opportunity to help you when this came up and although couldn't afford it personally, took it from company funds without asking? Now she's been found out she's facing being kicked out of the company unless she can replace the money immediately and as you offered so many times to repay in full she's under the impression you can afford it and she's asking for it back thinking it will cause you no hardship?

I agree either way she's gone about it completely the wrong way and she should have never have offered it as a gift in the first place if she couldn't afford it even if she was trying to desperately make up for the past. Also the way she's spoken to you since asking for it back is horrid but again might be down to being in panic mode, loosing her husband, her business, maybe even facing criminal charges if it was taken from the company illegally?

....or she could just be a complete witch

I know you have said that she's just passed you off to her husband when you've tried speaking to her about it but maybe you could try phoning or texting her again and just asking in a very direct way what exactly has gone on and why she so desperately needs the money right this second.

I think it's horrible the way this has happend to you but I would see this in completely different lights depending on why this has arose. If she was really trying to help you and has gotten into trouble through doing so I would probably do what I could to help. If it's just a case of changing her mind or because she needed to fund this new contract I'd be tempted to say on your bike

Oh OP, how toxic your mother is. I see only two options - to repay it (in instalments that suit you so you don't damage your own cash flow/loan repayment) then go NC, or don't repay and go NC. Either way, NC is the ultimate outcome.

sorry just noticed you have said the husband definitely knew about it

Wow! What a bloody horrible woman. Sorry OP, I can see exactly why you’re so upset. I don’t agree with other posters who are surmising she may be getting kicked out for misappropriation of co funds - as you have stated her husband, etc knew. I think it’s more like your birth mother’s family are at loggerheads and you’re, sadly, collateral damage. Personally, I’d be torn like you in the first instance. However, after her (possibly) drunken tirade I’d be more than happy to tell them all to fuck the fuckity fuck off and never deal with them again. Good luck.... keep us updated!!

Op I am really sorry you are in this situation and have such a ooor relationship with your mother. She has not handled this well but I am guessing that won’t be a surprise to you.
I think I still see it that you accepted her gift (and you didn’t need to from what you wrote many pages ago). It was a gift. You knew her to be ‘toxic’ when you accepted her help. I’m not sure I understand this and do think that by doing so she is not out of order to ask for your help now (which you have said you can do).
Obviously if her need is not real or not explained to you then forget it. But if it is then I still think you can’t accept help and now say you won’t return with help because of your bad relationship. I have read the thread. I do know it is complex and I do feel for you having been treated poorly by her.

Pay her. She helped you in your hour of need so you should help her.

She’s your mum for heaven’s sake; I wouldn’t gave thought it even required any thought.
You clearly aren’t on the breadline so cough up. In installments if you’d rather but pay up.

See this just fucks me right off! READ THE FUCKING THREAD FFS! She didn't bring the OP up, has treated her differently from her siblings and scapegoats her often. So why the fuck should OP pay her back? Her "mum" insists it's a gift, practically forces it on the OP when the OP has stated she could wait a few months and afford it herself, then turns around demanding it back and telling the OP she's ruined her business. I mean you don't get more bloody toxic than that!

Were you given up for adoption, OP? My mother (voluntarily, nobody made her) gave up her first child for adoption and then went on to have several more. Her attitude to the first child is odd- she's prone to give him expensive and lavish gifts and will travel to another country to see him (won't travel 4 miles to see me!) but then her attitude towards him changes and she does nothing but moan about him. The difference is that my mother does fuck all for the rest of us, except for the one Golden Child (her youngest). I think the gifts to her first child are PR exercises more than anything, because she really likes to let people know what she's doing for him.

I don't think there is any fixing this, but on the other hand there is no urgency for you to try. You can think about this. Imagine the possible outcomes and their consequences, and think about how each possibility makes you feel. I'd be inclined to repay the business loan first (to take care of your actual, legal obligations and also to avoid the possibility of impulsively paying her and not having the loan repayment when it comes due) and then think about it in my own time.

Disengage from all online communication and don't answer the phone to them. If they want to get nasty, let them do it by letter. If they turn up at your house and are aggressive or intimidating, call the police. I suspect that as they show more of their true selves, you will feel less and less like giving them what they want.

If she has been caught dipping into company funds then she is likely to lose her job (although not her share in the business I'd think) anyway, regardless of any repayment. She should think herself lucky to also not be facing prosecution.

Not sure whether I have fully understood how the different businesses on both sides are financed, but if you would have to take money out of your own business to give to your mother, wouldn’t that place your business accounts on equally shaky ground?

No you shouldn't pay it back. It was given as a gift and the fact her circumstances have changed are neither here nor there.
I have recently given my DSIS 7k to pay 6 months rent on a property so she could start again away from an abusive partner and given my DBIL 6k because he had cancer and wasn't entitled to sick pay and they were messing around with his benefits.
It might be that circumstances change in the future and I urgently need that money but if that happened I'd have to get a load because that money is no longer mine and there is no way on earth I would ask for it back.