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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think DS needs professional help urgently?

158 replies

JugheadismyHero · 04/01/2019 23:04

Ds11 just broke down on me. Showed me a note he's written saying "kill me before I do something". He says he thinks about killing him self every night.

Wtf do I do!?!?

He's in no danger at the moment as far as I'm aware but who knows?

Do I phone 111 or do I wait until morning??

Do I take him to a&e??

When he was 10 he would walk out in front of cars, he would drop his dads weights onto his feet or legs to hurt himself. We saw gp's, cyps who said he wasn't depressed, wasn't suicidal. Even though he told them he was!!

He had counselling and we thought he had gone past this but now...

I'm just lost, someone help me to help him..

OP posts:
TeddybearBaby · 05/01/2019 06:01

@Bunnybigears not everyone can afford taxis. The op would be completely in her rights to call an ambulance in this situation if she was worried or unable to get to the hospital. Suicide is taken as seriously as it gets. Might not be safe for her to drive if she’s panicked either.

SofiaAmes · 05/01/2019 06:33

My ds is bipolar and started showing obvious symptoms around age 11, but didn't start getting help and medication until he was almost 13 because no one believed me that there was something wrong. I really wish I had started earlier with the treatment and medication. He's now 18 and doing well (and currently off all his medications), but we've been through 3 hospitalizations and a very severe suicide attempt. Ironically, his diagnosis was suicidal ideation, but he was so psychotic and unfortunately very clever and carried through on something that probably would have remained a thought with any other kid, and ended up hanging himself. He told us after that he didn't actually intend to kill himself (and I do believe that). Anyway, I would not wait for the NHS. Pay to see a private psychologist and/or psychiatrist and get a proper diagnosis. Also do a lot of googling. If your ds is willing, I would also recommend giving him Omega 3's. There have been some pretty good clinical trials that show that Omega 3's can reduce the number and severity of psychotic episodes and are very helpful in the early stages of psychosis. Also helpful with depression. And by the way, psychosis doesn't always look like they portray it in the movies. My ds' psychosis and/or mania looked more like a hyperactive kid to most people, but I knew that it wasn't adhd (because he was hyper focused and not unfocused...and other things too), but it took years before his doctors started agreeing with me. I was also blamed a lot for all sorts of things (many of which turned out to be because of his genetic disease which he wasn't diagnosed with until he was 11).

Anyway, my heart goes out to you. It may get worse before it gets better, but it will get better. (Pack yourself a hospital bag - books, phone chargers, extra sweaters, snacks and be prepared to spend a lot of time waiting for things. It will be easier for you and for him if you are prepared.)

imip · 05/01/2019 06:51

Flowers what a difficult time. My dd has self-harmed since the age of five. First tried to cut herself at 6. I had been fighting to get her diagnosed with ASD and a year later she was.

It completely fucks me off that cahms blamed you! I am so heartily sick of the parent-blaming that goes on with professionals.

I think generally that when a child this young displays such behaviours, there is usually something underlying it. ASD, adhd etc etc - anything you can think of?

strawberrisc · 05/01/2019 07:04

@Sam0207 just the advice I came to give. Great post. Sorry to hear about all the posters on here going through the same thing. I am going to sound like the worst and most selfish Mum on here but while I’ll go to the ends of the earth for my DD I feel like I just about make it through each hour. I’m utterly emotionally drained.

JugheadismyHero · 05/01/2019 07:46

Wow thankyou everyone

I'm really sorry to hear others have been through this with their children, thank you for sharing.

Ds is still asleep thankfully. Will see how he is when he wakes and figure out what to do

OP posts:
JugheadismyHero · 05/01/2019 07:55

DH is really dismissive, said he's attention seeking because I took his phone away last night..

So I guess I'm on my own with this, again

OP posts:
notaflyingmonkey · 05/01/2019 08:17

I am going through something similar with my DS (17). The last few months have been a living hell. I have been knocking on all sorts of doors trying to get him some help, but frankly have no clue what it is that I should be asking for. Unfortunately our CAMHS was useless. Despite him talking about suicide and psychosis as his assessment they discharged him. Healthy walks and exercise are all very well, but not if they refuse as they are in such a deep depression they are catatonic.

This was the Guardian letter's page earlier in the week, it makes hard reading:
www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jan/02/a-lack-of-care-for-young-people-in-mental-distress

OneInEight · 05/01/2019 08:35

If you can afford it (or even if you can not) consider seriously going private because in our experience CAMHS has been as much use as a chocolate teapot. If finance is an issue then you could consider applying for DLA - you might qualify if you are having to spend a lot of time, either day time or night time, trying to reduce his anxieties and this might help fund therapies. Things like equine therapy have helped ds1.

If it is verbalisation rather than intent he will not be top of CAMHS priorities. If they suggest medication tread very carefully as this made things worse for ds2. Talking therapies may be better (unfortunately never been an option for ds2 as too stressed to access them). Inpatient care is very limited for a child as young as eleven (we were initially told there were no facilities). Plus even when they admitted there were a few beds to regard this as a holding facility rather than a means to improving ds2's mental health.

It is probably not coincidence that this crisis has arisen when he will shortly be returning to school. One proactive thing you could do is make an appointment with school to see if there is any support they could put in place to reduce anxiety. It might also be worth doing a diary of your ds's behaviour to see if you can identify any specific triggers.

ds2 is undoubtedly worse when he is tired so another thing to try is make sure your ds is getting good quality sleep. Make sure electronic devices are turned off well before bedtime and perhaps consider melatonin if he has trouble falling to sleep.

Anotheronebitesthefluff · 05/01/2019 08:36

If you google Mental health helplines and the area you live, some numbers will come up. They're usually open throughout the night and weekends as that's when people struggle. They're just a listening service but it might help him in the interim. Hope it helps

Strawbberrypineapple · 05/01/2019 08:41

Maybe dh is dismissive as he doesnt want to admit that his ds has a problem. Think thats quite common( esp with men althou will be slated for saying that) Go with yr gut. Thinking of you. No other advice but looks like lots of others in here do have so keep posting back. Sending you a virtual hug for you both.

JustDanceAddict · 05/01/2019 09:03

Good luck today. I hope that you and your son are taken seriously.
I have gone through the camhs system with my DCs - well I went private with dd at the time we had insurance. When I took ds initially to gp he was 9 and the gp couldn’t wait to blame me for his anxiety. I had known that gp for 10+ years and I was so pissed off. Def stay strong and don’t get fobbed off.

TAmum123 · 05/01/2019 09:22

I have had a similar experience to sam0207 and was about to say similar. Do go to a&e if you feel you can’t keep ds safe - they will not turn you away. Dd has been there multiple times and on 1 occasion there were 4 cubicles occupied by teenagers having a mental health crisis. In our area, the outcome of the emergency assessment does move you up the camhs waiting list if necessary. Dd has had 4 admissions to tier 4 adolescent mental health units and was held on the children’s ward awaiting a bed each time but with a 1:1 psychiatric nurse 24 hours a day. I only realised how exhausted I was the first time it happened as I was able to sleep as I knew she was safe. I was also able to give my other 2 children some attention.

On a practical note, try and make your house as safe as possible. I hid the sharp knives, bought a locked box for medication (dd has made one attempt at taking her own life that was life threatening by taking 24 paracetamol, a very dangerous drug), limit cleaning supplies like bleach.

It is a dreadful experience to live through with your own child.... you often feel powerless.... other people don’t get it.... sending you a hug. Do keep posting and we will help in any way we can xx

OhTheRoses · 05/01/2019 09:37

Will post later.

JugheadismyHero · 05/01/2019 09:45

He's awake and not talking. Anything I ask is just answered with shrugged shoulders.

So I'm treating him normally today, DH has just gone to get new bunk beds for ds' room so I've told him and his younger brother to clean their room.

I've also banned phones for today.

I've told ds I'll be around if he wants to talk, or we can go for a walk together later if he wants.

I'm not brushing this off or anything, I know I need to get him help which I will first thing Monday. If I feel he's in danger I'll be straight to a&e with him.

OP posts:
BlimeyCalmDown · 05/01/2019 10:03

Maybe try distraction, snuggle up a have a movie day, TLC and treats, removing phone and making him tidy room seem a little harsh if he feels he wants to die.

Topseyt · 05/01/2019 10:55

I think you are doing all of the right things for today. It is all you can do.

I understand what you mean about dealing with this on your own. My DH doesn't really "get" mental health issues. He isn't unsupportive as such, but I am sure he just seems to think that depressed people just need told to cheer up! He will start by making all of the right noises, but you can tell that it is a front for his confusion. After about three or four weeks he will start to lose patience an question why this isn't yet back in it's box. He is then liable to start doing stupid stuff like issuing ultimatums!

DD has the measure of DH (her Dad) on this and has told her therapists that she doesn't want him involved in the family counselling sessions (and why). Thankfully they have accepted it.

divadee · 05/01/2019 11:03

If he wants to talk more anonymously and in a format most young people like try kooth.com I have recommended to students at work and have had very good feedback from the students. I don't have personal experience but as I say the feedback has been very good. Especially with self harmers.

OhTheRoses · 05/01/2019 12:03

Having dealt with a mid teen cutting and overdosing in response to anxiety and depression all I can say is that whilst adult mh is underfunded camhs is a national scandal but let's not forget that it is ccgs who make the commissioning decisions about where the money goes.

We got nowhere and yes although dd is from a loved family and wanted for nothing socially, economically or emotionally the first response was to parent blame and then to move goal posts and claim I had misunderstood the plan/timeframe. As a professional and director of a complex organisation I am not inclined to misunderstand even when dealing with very complex information.

Fortunately we had funds to refer dd privately to a consultant psychiatrist who ruled out potential endocrine issues and vit D etc. DD had one to one therapy, fluoxetine and at her request an ASD assessment - because she knew there was something fundamentally wrong. The psych also assessed for ADHD which hadn't occurred to us. DD had some ASD traits but not enough for a diagnosis but she did have ADD. Looking back it was obvious all the glimpses of brilliance and never folliwing through. GCSEs were the catalyst for her mh to spiral. She was also very adept at masking.

CAMHS may be under resourced but in my dealings I found them to exist on a culture of excuses and a very jobsworth badis where they did thhe minimum they could get away with both organisationally and individually. All within a 9-5 set up which is grossly out of kilter with 21st century lifestyles. So many lost letters, phone numbers and sheer errors in reports, etc, due either to incompetence or simply not caring.

The people assesding are likely to be nurses who then escalateinfirmation to multidisciplinary teams ime often incorrectly. This is a huge problem and like hv's these nurses who have consciously decided to avoid the hard graft of hands on nursing and shifts. Any other medical issue is initially reviewed by an appropriately qualified doctor who determines the tests, diagnosis and treatment plan. For example: asthma, broken limb, leukaemia, diabetes etc. No other clinical illness is the responsibility entirely of a nurse.

Also, whilst I get the entry into CAMHS via A&E that is not what hospitalbudgets are for. Often acute admissions are not necessary and not necessarily helpful just to facilitate a CAMHS review. There should as a minimum be specialist help-lines for the public and on call CAMHS clinicians to provide assessments far beyond 9-5 windows. Every paediatric A&E dept should have a CAMHS nurse attached in the current set up.

CAMHS and CCG's overall need to be far mire cognizant of prevention and early intervention and some economic cost analysis needs to take place of failure to fund this service. YP nit realusing pitential, permanent impact on self esteem, parents losing jobs due to having to provide 24 hour care because matters escalate or because provision of services is so inflexible let alone parents spiralling into depression as a result of this fiasco that us CAMHS.

However op if private care is not an option my advice when dealing with these clowns is as follows:

It is essential that you make a written note of every interraction. Everything they say they will do confirm to them in writing with time frames nd send all letters registered delivery so there is an audit trail. Put in writing anything with which you disagree and request in writing that your child is
Assessed face to face by a psychiatrist or that a psychiatrist reviews care plan against any concerns you may have and that psychiatrist personally signs off on that particular report. If you hit any ling delays, refusals to help do involve your MP - they can be very helpful.

Topseyt · 05/01/2019 12:52

I have to agree with Ohtheroses.

Also, to those engaging in debate over whether ambulances should or shouldn't be called, please don't. The point of the thread is to support OP and her DS, not engage in other issues. I agree totally with Teddy on that point.

We have helplines for out of hours from our CAMHS team. Their stock advice for everything is "go to A&E", which may or may not always be appropriate, but is how they cover their arses. If in doubt though, do that, by whatever means you need to.

DishingOutDone · 05/01/2019 13:08

Until you become involved in this you don't realise how common it is - I said this in my post last night and I am sad to see so many people coming on with even worse cases literally saying "me too - I'm a parent desperate because my child is mentally ill and I can't get the right treatment" - also worrying to see a similar case in Australia.

Yet when parents post this sort of thing you get a lot of posters piling on saying ooo take the phone away, he needs a good nights sleep, plenty of fresh air - someone even told me my daughter needed a make-over; as if some new clothes would "cheer her up". The lack of understanding is scary.

One thing I refuse to budge on is letting young people keep their phones. If they are desperate in the night, alone in their rooms, the phone can be the one thing that stops them from going over the edge. I'd say until you get really good advice otherwise, whilst your son is clearly so ill, don't take his phone away, particularly at night.

You are handling this so well OP your concern for your son is right up there in the front of everything you are doing. Your DH doesn't understand, make sure that is his problem, don't let is become yours or your son's. Keep posting, we are all here for you.

Rinoachicken · 05/01/2019 13:18

I think you need to tell your son that you are not ignoring his plea for help and that you are going to help him. Otherwise he might just feel like he’s opened up to you last night, begged for help and now nothing.

My partner is a mental health professional and he says you could have taken him to a&e last night and really should if you are concerned for his safety again before Monday.

Please be vigilent. Kids end up killing themselves by accidental hanging in their bedrooms all to often - doesn’t take much of a stretch to see how he could quite easily and quietly do the same on purpose.

Sirzy · 05/01/2019 13:26

It’s horrible I hope you manage to get help.

Ds is 9 and has severe anxiety. Last year I had to get a new referral to CAMHs during the massive waiting time he started self harming, I phoned for help (we don’t have a peads crisis team) and was told “your still about 8 weeks off being seen. In the mean time keep anything sharp and medications away from him” I resisted saying “no shit Sherlock”

We have been lucky that when we got into the service we have had fantastic treatment but getting there was horrendous

OhTheRoses · 05/01/2019 13:40

Rinoachicken, it's all very well parents telling their dc they will help them. Regrettably when organisations such as CAMHS do not help, the young person feels let down by the parent as well as CAMHS. A far better thing to say would be I will do everything I can to make sure the NHS provides the care it should provide.

The op is lucky her ds is under 16 so she can still advocate 100% for him. It gets much harder at 16 when the CAMHS professionals uncaring a'holes then smirk "well we can only speak to you with your child's consent" even when they know your child is overdosing and you don't and they are still refusing a service.

I think the op knows what she needs to do and is doing so wonderfully.

Topseyt · 05/01/2019 14:47

Ohtheroses is so right there.

My DD is 16. So I am now in the tricky position that they are reluctant to talk to me without her consent, yet I am supposed to be her main support with both her medication and her therapy sessions. I am also expected to advocate for her still when things are bad and she won't do it herself. They want me to do all of this, yet are wary of speaking to me. I get that it is patient confidentiality, as it should be, but at DD's age it creates a catch 22 position.

So far she has been willing to have me involved, comes to me and gives consent. I do feel though that I am losing the ability to be heard in advocating for her, when at 16, and with the issues she has, nobody can be sure that she will make the best decision if I don't. She is still too ill and vulnerable.

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