To think DS needs professional help urgently?

[JugheadismyHero]

Ds11 just broke down on me. Showed me a note he's written saying "kill me before I do something". He says he thinks about killing him self every night.

Wtf do I do!?!?

He's in no danger at the moment as far as I'm aware but who knows?

Do I phone 111 or do I wait until morning??

Do I take him to a&e??

When he was 10 he would walk out in front of cars, he would drop his dads weights onto his feet or legs to hurt himself. We saw gp's, cyps who said he wasn't depressed, wasn't suicidal. Even though he told them he was!!

He had counselling and we thought he had gone past this but now...

I'm just lost, someone help me to help him..

In my op I got the wording of the note wrong, i read it then he took it from me and ripped it up. I have posted a pic of the note further up.

His school work with the counselling service he saw last year so I will be talking to them Monday morning.

I will be getting him seen by someone tomorrow. And I won't be letting him too far from my sight.

Seventiescarpers makes good suggestions
Exercise
Nutrition
Diet
Purposeful activity & mindfulness
All help mental health

That note makes me think he has OCD. My son has it and, before treatment (CBT and meds), he was convinced he was going to do something terrible to someone. It tormented him. I had no idea he was having intrusive thoughts until I sat through therapy with him.

I hope you can get help for him soon.

He is in a local football team, he was meant to have training tonight but his dad had to work late. He loves it there, they are a great group of boys and they all go to the same school.

I know he has friends, I know people care about him. He has very low self esteem

Good luck op,be persistent. Ask for further camhs & GP involvement. Tell school
Write down a timeline,events,the note,your concerns
Good luck

id remove any knives or sharp objects. when I was a child my mum said id walked into her room with 2 big knives crying that I don't know what to do. I don't remember it, but just make sure every one is safe. im still battling the gp's and MH professionals for more help. I pray he will be ok x

Don’t phone 111. They will just tell you to take him to a&e. He also needs to be awake for the assessment if you call 111 aswell. I know because I work for them. If he’s actually trying to attempt suicide then call 999. However I do know that certain call centres do have specific nurses for mental health but the small one I work in doesn’t.

He needs to actually see a doctor, so take him to his gp or a&e

If you take him to A&E he will be seen by some kind of crisis worker (where I am out of hours it is usually a CAMHS junior doctor on call) who will take a history and assess for risk of harm to self or others. If they think you can keep him safe at home they will more than likely discharge him after completing a risk assessment and advising you how to keep him safe. Being vigilant, not leaving him alone for long periods and locking away medicines is always advisable. In our Trust he would get a mandatory follow up appointment where they would discuss what further treatment is appropriate. Suicidal ideation does not always equal suicidal risk.

It sounds like he would benefit from a CAMHS referral and some more help from CAMHS. CAMHS does have long waits but children are seen based on risk - so if he is deemed risky he will be seen sooner. A long wait - although it means waiting longer for treatment actually means that the risk is low.

It sounds like you are a very caring mum. He has shown you how he is feeling which means you can seek the help for him - it would be even more worrying if he was keeping these unwelcome thoughts to himself.

How very scary for you and him. I'm sorry your all dealing with this.

I Think k he's been amazing a d strong in telling you how he's feels, he's obviously a very strong fighter trying and wanting to get better. And you obviously have a very good relationship with him for him to be able to tell you this.

I think your doing great, i would also allow him to sleep and then tomorrow tell him that your going to help him get the help he needs.

I'd talk to the school to, even if it means keeping him home for a day or two extra. They may be as to help with counsling as well.

CAMHS differs so much in each area, but in my area you can appeal for a re-assessment. Our GP contacted the psychiatrist there direct and said please take Dishing's DD on ASAP. We also tried private but it didn't help for us although if you can afford an assessment it might help. He really needs to see a psychologist but in some areas even an urgent referral to CAMHS is 6 months wait and I know some people are forced to use the A&E crisis team route just to access the service.

I am in various support groups and across the board people are saying that (again in some areas) CAMHS blame parents as a way of reducing their case load. My DD has now started on fluoxetine and has seen a slight improvement, but if she'd been seen sooner and started on medication ASAP she would have been going back to school next week; as it is she's been off school since May now .

Until you become involved in this you don't realise how common it is. Have you had any support from Young Minds OP? They might be able to find out what is the best route for support in your area, it varies so much - their parent helpline will be open on Monday but in the meantime do check with 111 because there might be a better crisis service for under 18s in your area - one of the few cases where 111 will actually have helpful information!

youngminds.org.uk

My DS16 had been diagnosed with Suicidal Ideation ( preoccupation with suicidal thoughts/plans). I have had many trips to A&E when I haven't felt confident to keep him safe. What usually happens if the Casualty Staff feel he is at risk they will either find him a bed on the childrens ward or a bed in A&E (usually dependant on time of triage and in my area has to be signed off by a paediatric psychiatrist) until he can be seen by the Emergency CAHMS Team (here they are called CCAT). CAMHS Team will chat with you and with your boy and decide the level of risk of suicide.

Please bare in mind that:
If they discharge him there is no fast track to therapy services, you are still probably looking at 6-18 weeks for an initial assessment. There may be some other provision in your area (I can only go by my own experience).
If they decide to admit him to a Tier 4 CAMHS Psychiatric Unit (highly, highly unlikely given his age) because they feel he is at serious and imminent risk of suicide beds are as rare as hens teeth and are allocated as "nearest available bed" - this could be anywhere in the UK.

That said, if you are at all concerned that he is imminently suicidal PLEASE take him to A&E - thats what the services are there for. If you feel you can manage at home then an emergency GP apt on Monday with a request for an ASAP CAMHS apt and an enquiry as to what other MH services are available in your area for young people. School may also be able to sign post you to services and it is important to make them aware of the current situation.

Do ask your son if he has anything he feels he should give you (blades, ropes etc - sorry I'm not trying to scare you) and do a top to toe search of his room (I have found blades in the craziest of places - an empty chapstick was a favourite. Try and stay calm, if he sees you panic then he'll probably blame himself, I know it sounds trite but a cuddle on the sofa and a kiddy film (Matilda in this house) might help to soothe his brain for a bit. Above all, let him know you are in control, he's asked for help, he's "given" his worry over to you so it will help him to see someone else help manage that worry (I hope I'm making sense).

Having been there on many occasions (this evening I thought we were going to be heading to A&E but some prescribed, as needed, meds and a lot of TLC have helped so far) I'll be thinking of you and your boy. Take care.

Sam0207 post is thoughtful & comprehensive, wishing you and your son well Sam

Threshold for admission is high

Least restrictive options eg home treatment team,community session are usual option offered if after risk assessment it’s deemed yiur son doesn’t require admission

All mental health services inc camh are under huge pressure and this impacts upon provision and availability of admission beds, available Camh bed may be a considerable distance.

Do ask school and GP to support you

I’m acknowledging the other parents and the systemic difficulties they’ve experienced

Thanks Lipstick - he's asleep now (I have a baby monitor in case he wakes and the next dose of meds at the ready).

OP - one of the things you will be asked is "do you think you can keep him safe?". This is something only you can answer and it will take a great deal of thought. The first time I was ever asked that my instant reaction as to say yes - I'm Mum after all, isn't that my job? Am I failing him as a parent if I can't? Realistically, sometimes NO ONE can keep my child safe and part of being a good parent is realising that.
There are times, like this evening, where I calculate carefully if I can manage him (but still pack our hospital bag - incl earplugs as its as noisy as hell overnight). Other times I've had to square up to 25 year old trainees who think they know my child better than I do when they have wanted to send him home in a catatonic state (literally). My standard line is - you may be the expert in child psychology but I am the expert in my child! We've been "held" in the childrens ward for a week waiting for a CAHMS bed to become available and they hated me when I pointed out that the law states if there is no available NHS bed they have to pay for the nearest private bed. Thank goodness for that private hospital, they gave a firm diagnosis of two important problems that had been previously missed by the NHS CAHMS for YEARS (Autism and SPD) along with the Suicidal Ideation/Immerging Personality Disorder/OCD/Severe Anxiety etc etc.

He'd been doing really well recently, back into a specialist form of education, got a group of friends ect until the perfect storm of revision stress/girlfriend fancies someone else/gender dysphoria kicked in.

Here's hoping tomorrow is better for both our DS's - and for us x

I can't add to the good advice you have been given here. There are some great posts.

I just wanted to say that you are not alone. I have a 16; year old DD who is experiencing severe MH problems (depression and eating disorder). She is now on medication (fluoxetine) and is just beginning some talking therapies with CAMHS (now called EWMHS, I think). I almost ended up taking her to A & E about three weeks ago. It is very scary, so I have some idea what you are going through.

We have had several experiences of CAMHS since DD was not much older than your DS and to be honest, it has been hit or miss. The first one was dreadful - a horrible old bat who even came to nose around our house, then in the next clinic session waited until she had sent me back to the waiting room and DD was alone before telling her (my DD) that she had no problems. That the room could be filled several times over with young people with far worse issues so DD should consider herself lucky. Really laid into her apparently. We've also heard that she treated others similarly. Thankfully this old bat (sorry, not meaning to be ageist there, just descriptive) no longer seems to be there and subsequent contact has been much better.

Best wishes to you and your DS. I know just how helpless this can make you feel as a parent.

I really feel for you OP. Your poor boy, my DS is the same age and it breaks my heart just thinking about the pain your boy must be under.

I had similar when ds was five, he told me that I had no idea how hard his life was and that he wished he was dead. He frequently had meltdowns and was incredibly anxious about school, scream8ng and terror and clinging onto me, onto the door frame, the wall whenever dh would try to take him to school. A friend suggested that he might be on the autism spectrum, I called the National Autistic society for advice and was advised to make a list of the behaviours that concerned me and to take him to our gp. We got an emergency appointment the next day and ds’s gp (who had actually transferred from paediatrics to general practice due to wanting less hours) sent an emergency referral through to the children and families mental health department at our local children hospital. He was seen within a week, within an hour we were advised to research autism as thoroughly as possible, we were then placed on a waiting list for diagnosis. It was almost a year later before we received his diagnosis of Autism. However thanks to the psychologist who advised us at the first appointment, we were able to research autism and talk to our son about autism.

We found that our son felt so much better knowing that there was a reason for how hard things were. We were able to have meetings with his school to support ds. We went on several courses run by the National Autistic society, we purchased sensory toys and a weighted blanket, which helped ds a great deal. The best thing we did do was remove ds from school and begin home educating him ourselves. (I am an ex primary teacher) Our son has went from feeling suicidal, utterly depressed and constantly anxious, to happy, relaxed and positive. He kept thanking us and hugging us for months, as he just felt so much better.

I’m not saying that your ds is autistic, but it is certainly worth looking into! I would also try to help your ds to express why he is so depressed. Even if he writes his worries down. Is it possible that your ds is being bullied badly at school and that he is incredibly anxious at facing the new term on Monday? My ds and many children on the spectrum really struggle with transitions, so starting a new term could trigger anxiety.

In your shoes, I would climb into bed beside your ds and hold him as he sleeps. My ds still comes into bed with me if he is distressed/ upset or anxious. If your ds is autistic, then in all likelihood his emotional age will be roughly four years younger than his actual age (ds is intellectually far ahead of his actual age but socially and emotionally only functioning around the age of 7). They are still so young at 11 and they still need us to be there at any point of the night.

Here is a link to the NAS and information on autism, Aspergers and pda.

www.autism.org.uk/about/what-is/asperger.aspx
www.autism.org.uk/about/what-is/pda.aspx
www.autism.org.uk/about/what-is.aspx

This is awful to read!! Bless him and you!!

It’s even worse to hear the mental health services are as limited as they are!!

No real advise as such but just wanted to let you know we’re all here listing on this thread should you need some place turn. I think the posters so far have offered some good advise.

If your ds is anxious and scared... just assure him he’s going to be ok ... that just like the body the brain can need a little looking after and that your there for him. Theb get ready to fight for proper help for your son I have a very close family member with mental healt issues ( adult not a child) and they’ve always tell me that when they’ve seen bad just the reassurance from me that everything is fine and nothing bad Is going to happen makes them feel more safe and calms this irritation fears and anxiety!! Good luck xxx

I don't have anything to add but couldn't not write something.

My heart breaks for him and you as a mum. I really hope he gets the help he needs. You sound like a great mum

A professional can assess how likely he is to act on his suicidal thoughts. There are a lot of factors, and in many cases there is low risk.

As a parent you can help him feel secure and loved. Give him room to talk (if he wants to) or help give him a break from his anxieties (e.g. with entertainment) if he is willing to take that. Remember that as his parent there may be things he doesn't want to discuss with you. I think calling The Samaritans was a good suggestion.

When I was 11 a friend showed me suicide notes that she had hidden in her room. I didn't do anything with that information (although I was a little shocked). My friend is still with us 30 years later.

Four years ago my son at 14 hit puberty and during that year he experienced bipolar extremes catatonic then manic. He has severe cerebral palsy and couldn't verbalize what was wrong. So it had to have been terrifying for him unable to express his feelings. One two week stretch he didn't sleep during a manic episode. We had difficulty getting inpatient treatment here (USA) due to his underlying complex medical needs but we finally got it. He was hospitalized almost four months. It was sheer hell until they got his medication regime sorted out. I never thought we would get his normal happy self back but we did. There is hope.

Now he's asleep let him sleep and agree tomorrow get him seen. Do not leave until they take you seriously. Refuse to move.

Debating whether to say this but I feel it's important to explain why I feel like this. MIL had mh problems all her life and went through good and bad times. She'd been having a bad few months and we called her support team one night when she threatened to kill herself. She was taken that night to the mh hospital for assessment. We sat in a room, they admitted that she needed help and would find some but didn't have the space that night to take her in. I pushed. HARD. They backtracked and said she didn't need the help and her usual team would be in touch the next day. I said that if they didn't help here right there and then she would end up dead. A couple of weeks later she was dead. That's the short version, of course it's not that straightforward and there's more to the story.

The NHS is incredibly stretched and MH issues are too frequently not taken seriously. You have to push hard.

Before you see anyone tomorrow make lots of notes - history of things that have happened, lots of examples and also ask him to explain to you how he is feeling so you have his account if he clams up when there. Hopefully this will help you to focus and say everything you want to say.

Keep telling your boy you love him and cuddle him lots. Tell him that you are going to fix this for him and he needs to hold on. Tell him that life can be happy and that it will. Then fight for him.

My DS at 11 was threatening suicide, he had been sexually assaulted by one of his dad's carers on several occasions but had only at the time recently realised that what the carer was doing was sexual assault, not play fighting. He was in a terrible state, we had reported it to the police & had visited our GP who was frankly useless, he couldn't sleep was petrified of everyone & anything. I took him to A & E at our children's hospital, after seeing a doctor there he got us a same day appointment to see a psychologist in the child protection unit, he ended up seeing her once a fortnight for nearly 6 months & has had another series of sessions with her a year later. Take your son to A & E, preferably at a children's hospital if you have one nearby, my DS is ASD & still suffers from severe anxiety & depression, we have now been on a waiting list to see a psychologist again for over a year & have been told that the average wait is 3 years, that means my DS will be 17 by the time he gets to see someone, if he ever does.

Teddybear - if she can't get to hospital she should call at taxi, not an ambulance!

My heart goes out to you and your DS. I'm glad he was able to reach out to you.

My DD had similar challenges and at 15 was diagnosed (provisionally as they don't like to diagnose adolescents) with borderline personality disorder. It has a high suicide rate and we have spent many hours in A&E dealing with overdoses and self-harm. She's also anorexic and bulimic. I would say that at around 11 years old was when she started to show signs of not being quite right - hence I do think you should take what your son is saying seriously.

She turned 16 a couple of weeks ago and we're getting her admitted to a private psychiatric hospital on Monday. She's been seeing a psychiatrist for about 18 months, but he mainly deals with her medication. His recommendation was a specific type of therapy, which can take up to about 2 years to become effective. We're kickstarting that with an in-patient stay and then doing weekly sessions with a psychologist thereafter. It's taken us some time to get here though - there's no magic bullet.

We are in Australia, so don't have experience of how the NHS manages mental health, but it's certainly been a struggle here. If you present to a GP or A&E with suicidal thoughts they will send you to a psychiatric ward, but they refuse to admit minors to adult wards (very scary places) and generally have no beds for adolescents or young people. You get sent home with a phone number for CAHMS in case your child attempts suicide or self-harm again, which is, as you can imagine, not great.

I hope you are able to get the support he needs and I'm glad he was able to reach out to you.

@Toddlerteaplease certainly would. I’ve had training. As soon as a client mentions the word suicide I’m to keep them with me and call an ambulance. HTH.