in-laws with problematic views

[Sleeplessinthecountry]

Have NC for this, and don't want to put much specific/identifying detail. It's more of a WWYD.

DH comes from a different country from where we live, and one where certain sections of society are, even now, completely racist (He is not, even the slightest). I have very strong views on any form of predjudice/racism etc and am not at all afraid to express them if I come across this. I have actually thrown "friends" (now ex-friends) out of my house in the past for expressing homophobic views, for example.

DH has very little contact with his family. He doesn't have any contact at all with some of them and the rest he hasn't seen in many years. He has very little in common with most of them, less so every year that he lives in the country where we live (my home country, where he moved to to be with me, fifteen years ago). He has had a little Facebook contact in recent years with a few of them, stuff like catching up with what has happened to people's kids in adulthood, seeing family snaps, wishing happy Christmas etc.

Over Christmas he had a message from a close (close in blood tie, not in relationship) family member who might be travelling with her husband to where we live and naturally would like to see us. Of course I said great, I have never met any of these people and it would be really interesting. I even said why don't they come and stay with us for a few days. These people are getting on in years and it may be DH's last chance to actually see them (he never travels back to his country of origin).

He then explained to me that I would basically have to bite my tongue if these people were around as they are completely racist, to the point they would be certain to not only be casually be racist in conversation without even realising it is a problem, but also to use language that we would find completely unaccaptable (think the "N word", it's not that word exactly but another word just as offensive if not more so, which is used by true racists in their country). They would even be quite likely to do things like refusing to get on public transport if people of another colour were on it, or to refusing to eat somewhere of people of another colour were also eating. That is the level of racism we are talking about. It sounds shocking to most people but it is still present (although thankfully no longer that widespread) in parts of the country they come from.

I said I was not sure I would be able to promise to keep my tongue in those circumstances. DH understands it's a difficult situation but asked me to do so just this once, these people are his family, he would like to see them after so many years, they would like to see him, they are old and we will not be likely to ever see them again. Could I not just set my beliefs aside for a day or two, in the full knowledge that DH is as appalled by racism as I am?

Bear in mind that DH is a very isolated person, family-wise. His parents have been dead for many years, he is estranged from some of his family, and those he does have contact with, the contact is minimal. I still have both parents, and siblings (they live in other countries from me as well, but we are all very much in contact and see each other when we can). So basically I have family and a feeling of belonging to a heritage and background. He is completely cut off from his and I think that must be very difficult.

WWYD?

Maybe let them stay but have agreement from DH that you are allowed to say those types of views/that type of language is not acceptable in this country. We need you to know this.

I agree with this.

But I'd be fascinated to see how they'd get on if they were allowed to roam wild without moderation.

Hang on, so this is the first time they've ever been abroad and they're not young, why exactly are they coming, is it specifically to see DH? With attitudes like that first time abroad is going to be pretty mind-blowing for them. They're going to encounter a bazzilion people of other colours just en route. By the time they arrive won't their minds have already been blown? Are they flying? What happens if they're sat next to foreigners on the plane?

Lizzie I live in a small village in Portugal. People seem very open and accepting of people whatever their origins. You see multi ethnic groups working and socialising in a way you rarely see in UK. No idea about football fans. An alien species to me😀

This is not helpful at all, but I don't think I could spend any time with them. At home I'd have to say something, especially if children were involved, and out and about I couldn't bear to be in the company of someone spouting racist views or kicking up a fuss if they were in a cafe and a person with darker skin came in.

I think it would be fine to say quietly and firmly every time ‘we don’t say that kind of thing in this country’,or ‘it’s not done to say/behave like that here’. No anger or aggression just ‘that’s not how things are here’. And as for not getting on a bus or eating in a restaurant tell them ‘you can wait for the next one if you want but we all travel/eat together in this country so you might end up walking/going hungry’.

Sadly attitudes like this are all too common even within Europe. I know someone from an African country who married someone from a Mediterranean country. After some years together in her African home she moved with him to his home town on a small island in his country of origin where she suffered racism you would not believe. Her inlaws even made her sleep outside with the dogs at one point and her once devoted husband suffered so much abuse himself for having married her that he went along with his family and participated in the attacks on her.

Okay, I was trying to remember where it was that I had heard that about. Actually I think that sort of treatment for black players is probably quite widespread sadly, though, pack mentality and all that.

I think the difference is that it's actually illegal in this country to chant racist abuse whereas in other countries it isn't.

I think these people need warned before they come to this country that their views and behaviour could well earn them some time inside a jail as racism is not accepted here (nor should it be). I actually can’t believe this still happens in this day and age.

I'd say they could stay in a local hotel and DH can go and visit them on his own.

I couldn't bite my tongue around people like this, no matter how old or how backward their local area is. And from the sound of your OP, neither could you!

@winsinbin

Yes I'm afraid it is bad in some Mediterranean towns. I'm so sorry your friend went through that, completely despicable.

@NotTheFordType

The problem is that they would be thrown out of a lot of hotels for racist language and rightly so. Why should other paying guests have to put up with listening to that??

I'd make sure they had to use public transport, eat out for every meal and ensure that, at all costs, they had to either engage with other ethnic groups or starve to death, stranded upon a roundabout somewhere near Swindon. Smiling broadly all the time and deliberately being oblivious to the reason for their unhappiness.

And if they eventually complained about it with a full explanation, I'd probably smile and suggest they fucked off back to where they came from.

Lizzie48 Spain is not a particularly racist country (although you can come across bigots and idiots in any country, of course). I remember an interview with Neneh Cherry, a black singer, who said that she had never been in a less racist place than her village in Andalusia.

The football incident you mention happened years ago, and was swiftly, and strongly, dealt with. I believe there was recently a case of an English football fan calling a player a "black cunt"? I wouldn't call Britain a racist country because of idiotic football fans.

Some people live really closeted lives if they think racism isn't wide spread in many countries

Rural France, Spain, Portugal, Greece, England are all places a city dweller might find challenging on issues of open racism

I am possibly wrongly assuming they are South African?

We have neighbours who lived in SA and are deeply racist. I was horrified as they appear to be a lovely couple in their 70's .

I would not go in all guns blazing but I would calmly tell them that that sort of language is not acceptable in this country. If they refused to get on a bus because of people of another colour then I would chuckle and say that they're just going to have to walk....

I would expect dh to warn them of the social mresof this country, that racism is really badly thought of, and that his dp - among others - would be horrified.

There is definitely still a lot of racism in Spain. I live in quite a big city and there is still a VERY low population of ethnic minorities, and they are clearly not well integrated into society as tend to hang out in groups. I'm sure not helped due to this prejudice. I'm hoping this will change as their kids go to school and grow up here amongst the other Spanish kids.

Most of our friends have never really socialised with people of colour and when visiting us in the UK were 'shocked' to see a smart black guy in a suit hanging out with other English guys (they have seen on tv but said it was different to see in the flesh) - I was quite offended and amazed by this reaction at the time but put it down to just ignorance. I have to remind myself that there was a dictatorship until 1975 so there was absolutely no immigration until the 80s. In the UK we've been used to immigration since the 50s and most of us are mixed heritage with Indian/Carribean etc so part of everyday life for most of us.

Has your DH reminded them that they are coming to a multi cultural country?

Is it South Africa?

My good friend’s husband’s family are South African and his family are the most racist people I have ever met

spanishwife It is true that the proportion of ethnic diversity in Spain is quite low compared to other countries, due to historic reasons. People couldn't socialise with people of colour because there just weren't any around (and I remember the time, as a child, when seing a POC was surprising).

But that doesn't make Spanish society racist per se - I think it's a society that has adapted remarkably well to the the influx of immigrants. As you say, you only have to look at schools, particularly in inner cities - you see children of Asian, African, and South American descent playing and being friends with European children all the time.

Some people live really closeted lives if they think racism isn't wide spread in many countries

Rural France, Spain, Portugal, Greece, England are all places a city dweller might find challenging on issues of open racism

Some people live very closeted lives if they think issues of open racism doesn't exist in cities.

he should meet them on his own then if this is considered acceptable just because of xyz reasons!

He needs to tell them beforehand about the cultural difference in your country and that you don't want your dc exposed to that kind of language.

If they do come and speak like that in front of you or your dc then you should absolutely NOT bite your tongue - because that is still condoning and accepting their racism under the guise of "oh but THIS is why".
There is no justification for it.
They shouldn't venture out from their bubble if they can't behave like civilised human beings.
Considering THEY are the guests visiting you all, it is THEY who should be biting their tongues!

Personally, if it were me i'd enjoy 'debtaing' it with them quite strongly and asking them point blank where the fuck they get off acting like they're a superior race - they bleed and shit the same as any other person.

And, OP, I agree with PPs that you need to say something if they make racist comments. And if they refuse to enter a restaurant or a train for racist reasons, you shouldn't go along with it. I don't care if they are relatives, or old, or whatever. That's outrageous in any civilised country.

And, OP, I agree with PPs that you need to say something if they make racist comments. And if they refuse to enter a restaurant or a train for racist reasons, you shouldn't go along with it. I don't care if they are relatives, or old, or whatever. That's outrageous in any civilised country.

This, very well put.

I didn't really want to go into too much detail but as people seem to be thinking I am inauthentic, maybe I had better give a bit more: OK, DH comes from South Africa/Zimbabwe, these particular family members are people who live in a deeply rural area in SA which includes an all-white enclave (I don't know whether they actually live within that enclave but certainly in the general area).

I don't mean to be rude but I don't need to educate myself about SA, I lived there for over twenty years! I agree however that many people have changed (and I have not been back there for quite while so maybe more than I realise). That's exactly what I put to DH when he brought this up, but he seems conviced these people are such dyed-in-the-wool fundamental racists that they can't have changed that much. I don't know them, or the area where they live, so I really don't know what the situation may be. I do however know other white Africans (from SA, Zim, Kenya) whose offensive attitudes and words I will not keep quiet about, and arguments have ensued. Those aren't my DH's relatives though, so I don't feel I have to keep quiet (and neither does he).

These are people who would not know what the "norm" is when visiting another country/culture as the have never done so. They might not even (according to DH) realise that some of the things they may say or do are offensive. Things that to us would seem deeply shocking might be just the norm for them. There are still people in SA, and I know because I've met them, who think that it is scientifically proven fact (and also ordained by God of course) that black people are less intelligent than white people, don't feel the same degree of pain, don't feel the same level of emotions etc etc. If you are surrpunded by people who just assume this is true you might find other views difficult to understand.

The answers are all appreciated, thank you. DH is going to have to think of a form of words to use with them which does the job without alienating them...