James Bulger

[Monty27]

Hang your head in shame Vincent Lambre.
You low life creep.
Anyone?

I just see their behaviour being minimised by some on here, it is true, there are children from similar backgrounds who do not murder. It must be something inherently wrong in their psyche, when they came together, as they did, make a very dangerous mix which resulted in the murder of a little boy.

Is there something different, particularly controversial, about this new film? There have been plenty of documentary films made about the case and about other cases, such as Elizabeth Smart. There's a very good film about her abduction, it's quite harrowing but not gratuitous and well worth watching, often shown on TV. In her case, she was found a year or so after she was taken and her kidnappers/abusers imprisoned.

I certainly remember the name of the little boy, James Bulger. How could anyone forget? I don't particularly want to remember the names of the killers, whenever I see something advertised on television about them I feel very uneasy. It's not healthy. However I have the choice not to watch or to switch off if it is too much. I don't blame the programme makers.

So this guy has a take that two little boys are human beings. He was right about that at least.

'Lowlife creep' is a ridiculous title to give Vincent Lambe. Do you not have a life, op, or do you comb headlines and watch breakfast telly in order to be outraged? An unhealthy obsession.

In fact John Venables behaviour is still deeply worrying and concerning, all those years of 'rehabilitation' have not helped.

You can’t put it down to an abusive background or anything like that because plenty of people with far worse backgrounds never, ever do anything like that or would contemplate doing so

Lots of people smoke and not all of them get cancer, emphysema, COPD or the other exhaustive list of conditions associated with smoking. No one is debating whether or not they should have murdered James, of course they shouldn't. IMO though they should not be depicted as demons, it does nothing to help. Humanizing them will not detract what they have done nor will it make them more likeable, but by highlighting the role this has played in their actions children in the furture from similar backgrounds might have a better chance at turning around their lives with the correct interventions and therapy (all of which are horribly underfunded)

Mary it’s shortlisting for an Oscar nomination

*shortlisted

I just see their behaviour being minimised by some on here, it is true,

Really?
I have seen a desire to want to understand why but I have not seen their actions or behaviour minimised. Bay i am reading some posts wrong.

I've just read a bit about Vincent Lambe. He is a thirty seven year old Irishman and has won an award for this short film. I've read nothing that makes me think he is in any way disrespectful to James Bulger's family.

What was particularly shocking about the case which I remember very well indeed, was the fact that the abductors/killers were children. It's not unknown but this case had a particularly high profile. I remember how, everywhere you went, at work, on the train, in shops, there was a very serious hush. The story touched everyone.

I'm going to watch the trailer, if I can.

Aeroflotgirl
The whole point is he didn’t get rehabilitation or proper psychiatric care.

I was a young adult when this happened. I was angry with the boys at the time and believed the hype. As I aged I realised this a very simplistic view of humans. We are neither all good nor all evil. These children are definitely not demons.

I will make the point again the filmmaker could have humanised the killers and explored their backgrounds without including the re-enactment of James’ abduction. It’s unnecessary and exploitative there is no justification for including the long shots of another child acting as James - none whatsoever. This is because it was simply added for extra effect, emotion impact call it what you will it does not in any way add to the explanation of why this act occurred so it should not have been included.

jess please watch the trailer and then decide. I think at the very least the family should have been warned their child’s final day would be dramatised.

I am from Bootle not too far from the strand where poor James was killed. I am also 28 this year which he would have been this year so it’s something very close to me. I’m not sure how Denise and family feels about this recent film and to me they are what matters here. Yeah of course people can talk about it and try and understand what would lead two 10 year olds to do it but I think it’s really poor to not consult her first on this

According to this interview, the film (which is 30 minutes long) is based on transcripts of interviews with the children who killed James Bulger:

The trailer is on you tube. If you search “detainment” it comes up.

In trying to be fair I can see why the director / producer has intercepted it with dramatisations of James being led away. In some ways it shows the true horror of the crime, juxtaposed with - what appears to be - quite a sympathetic portrayal of Venables and Thompson.

I think if we are going to start going down the road of looking for reasons why this happened and pointing the finger at poverty, abusive backgrounds and deprivation then it asks a lot of questions about the whole way we are going as a society at the moment where those who are poor, disabled or live in areas of extreme poverty are demonised. I don’t think it’s fair if we start feeling sorry for these “poor children” and at the same time cannot see the moral injustices in front of us.

“I just see their behaviour being minimised by some on here, it is true”

Cut and paste, please.

Ooops:

filmireland.net/2018/11/13/kerry-film-festival-vincent-lambe-director-of-detainment/

"I tried to get to understand, as much as I could by the evidence that is there, for example Robert’s family dynamic. Robert was just left to his own devices, six boys in a house where, if Robert was beaten up, instead of taking it out on his older brother, he would take it out on his younger brother, Ryan, who was 6. So when they are in the shopping centre Robert says ‘let’s get a kid, I haven’t hit one in ages’. That’s where that came from. What helped me understand was not that they came from disadvantaged backgrounds, that’s too easy to blame and plenty of people in that position don’t commit murders. For me it was the relationship and dynamic between the two boys, more so, than background that influenced what they did. Robert had this tough guy persona he created for himself and he had to live up to that and Jon was completely different, he was weak but didn’t want to look like that to Robert. So once the task was set, neither one of them could back down, for those reasons. For me that is more why what happened, happened. Their background and upbringing is relevant but it’s their toxic relationship which led them to do what they did."

Biscuits, I agree with your post.

Films need to be made so generations in the future don't forget and society doesn't forget it's part in horrific things. If this film isn't allowed to be made, why don't we ban all WWII films then and forget that ever happened?

The killers are human, we should be trying to understand what went so badly wrong in these boys' lives.

Saying all that, if I was James Bulger's mother, I would not want this film made. It could be argued that that is actually irrational albeit understandable.

Obviously humanising and understanding the two killers is a good thing. Making a film without speaking to the families is what's wrong here.

Bowchica I agree with you, sorry.

I was the same age as Venables and Thompson, I remember watching about the kidnapping of little James on the news, I remember thinking that they are kids like me and the wouldn't hurt him, it played on my mind when they found poor little James. They were monsters, they purposely went out that day to do what they did, in fact they tried to lure another child away but we're unsuccessful.
They are not children anymore but grown men, while one has laid low the other has shown his true colours, they were and still are evil to the core

I wasn't going to click on this thread because every time I see James's name it makes my heart skip.
I don't think there is any need whatsoever to try and "humanise" those boys. What they did was utterly inhuman - and I have a DS who is now a little older than they were when they killed that poor baby, so I know that their age at the time was absolutely ZERO excuse for what they did.

It's the thing to do these days, isn't it - make gruesome films about horrific events, most of which should not be "glamourised" in any way whatsoever.
All it does is feed the "tricoteuse"-style voyeuristic vultures.

I couldn't find any mention of the ages of the child actors used in this film. Really makes me quite angry that the film industry uses children in this way.

It's called Detainment, which implies the bias of the film.

I too think the film unnecessary. The interview transcripts were already in the public domain and have been for years so anyone interested in 'understanding' why these boys did this, can easily look it up themselves. I suspect that people will now watch this film hoping to see something depicted of the depravity that was inflicted on James as the trailer hints that it might.

Disgusting IMO and anyone using a child's death for their own profit should have the decency to get agreement from the child's family before bringing their horrific loss back into the public arena again.

I believe that the 'extremely abusive backgrounds' angle used to try to explain the boys actions was disproved some time ago.

You can still lock them up and throw away the key and also try to understand.

The point is not to prevent those particular killers from killing again, but to be able to see patterns which may alert whether other ten year olds now or in the future may be likely to do such things and so be able to step in before it is too late.

It seems like when people object to trying to understand the motivation or development of such killers they don't understand it is not about absolving murderers but about preventing future crime by other people who have not yet done anything wrong.

The story was (rightly) so emotive because of the depravity of the crime. There were lots of mistakes on the part of the children's services, the criminal justice service and even the press on how this was handled. It is not about minimizing what they did, it is about raising awareness of the tragedy that is abuse and neglect and the long term impact and dire need for funding for better therapy. It shouldn't have happened. The hows and the whys (which maybe this film is surfacing?) are key.