James Bulger

[Monty27]

Hang your head in shame Vincent Lambre.
You low life creep.
Anyone?

Vincent created a short film on James Bulger FYI.

Is this an academic film project as pp's seem to be suggesting, or is it being created for mass entertainment? I can't stand the idea of excuses for violent behaviour being made into public entertainment, and the perpetrators being made into celebrities. There's far too much of that going on.

I disagree. Many people, most people, yes. But even in Nazi Germany there were heroes. Their circumstances were ripe to go against the evil. Until we except that the I and the other are the same, are capable of the good and the bad, we won't move forward.

They should just be locked away and have the key thrown away. Look at Ian Brady, he spent years twisting the justice system round his little finger making empty promises when he was playing games for his own entertainment

I really don't understand what point this seeks to make. Brady was effectively locked up with the key thrown away. He never tried to be released, rather the reverse. Clearly being locked up didn't stop him "playing games".

Dangermouse, the film was released 8 months ago. Clearly no-one has been made into a celebrity by it.

We're not all the same. I would not stoop to inflicting torture on other people except in the most pressing circumstances (think do this, or it will be visited upon your child). That is not the case for some people.

So has anyone acually seen it?

I feel desperately sad for James Bulger's family, who's life has been destroyed for the past 3 decades and even now, their lives continue to be in the spotlight and open season just because this American decides he wants to make a film.

It is a tragedy that the 2 murderous boys had such a deprived life and never had a loving family in their formative years, but there are millions of families who live in poverty which in itself is a social tragedy of our times, and yet their children don't torture and murder people. Sympathy doesn't bring back an innocent child, so I can't muster any up for those killers. I don't see how the film is in the public interest.

They weren’t demons or scumbags, they were extremely fucked up children

This. Those children were victims of long term abuse and neglect. More needs to be done to humanize them and highlight the devastating impact of abuse and neglect. They were let down, as are many children still who should not be in the care of their parents but remain so because of overstretched and underfunded services. This does not in any way retract what they did but it should contextualize it.

I've no idea about the film but think he was out of hand even saying he didn't ask permission because he knew it wouldn't be granted. It would have been better not to say anything. I don't know who he is but i wonder by saying that was he looking to create a (controversial) name for himself, thereby increasing his profile.

I was disturbed at the time by the baying of the mob & the tabloid media towards two 10 year old children. It was a vile, hideous crime that was committed by boys who had had hopelessly inadequate upbringings. There should have been questions about how the boys ended up committing such a depraved act.

But the Sun wanted to recover some credibility in Liverpool post Hilsborough.

OP - Vincent Lambe is Irish, not American.

but there are millions of families who live in poverty which in itself is a social tragedy of our times, and yet their children don't torture and murder people

They didn't just live in poverty. They suffered horrendous abuse and neglect. There is a scientifically proven correlation between the two factors and behavioural and attachment disorders, propensity to criminal behaviours and long term MH issues. Go onto any adoption board where parents have adopted babies or toddlers who have experienced neglect/abuse and it nearly always has an effect later down the line.

The only point I was trying to make re Ian Brady is to question the point of "trying to understand" how these people's minds tick. Understanding why they kill innocent children, for kicks, entertainment, power or whatever is not going to solve the problem. That's exactly why they should be kept out of society. I don't believe in causing them harm, but trying to "understand" or "humanise" them is an insult.

I don't reckon anyone on here has seen it, as it's only been shown at special screenings and film festivals over the last 11 months, and not as a general release, from what I can tell.

People seem to be misunderstanding: this isn't the trailer for a big, cinematic up-and-coming release. It's a small-time independent art house film, by the look of it, which came out almost a year ago.

You can’t put it down to an abusive background or anything like that because plenty of people with far worse backgrounds never, ever do anything like that or would contemplate doing so

I don't understand why people make these sorts of comparisons. Literally no-one has the same experience as anyone else, and every single person's character, resilience etc are different from everyone else's. You can't say that because person X was abused and didn't kill, therefore the abuse person Y suffered didn't cause him to kill, because it's self-evidently ridiculously simplistic.

Those children who murdered James were sadistic, and depraved, they were also deeply disturbed in mind, to do what they did. Their upbringing provides an explanation for what they did, but not an excuse. There are plenty of kids with worse childhoods, who do not murder children. How much are we going to excuse their behaviour, John Venables continues to exhibit quite frankly disturbing and deeply worrying behaviour, accessing child abuse images for his own gratification.

If we already know the root cause is deprivation, abuse, etc then fine let's crack on and get that sorted. Fact is those social problems are already well understood but not being tackled.

“I don't believe in causing them harm, but trying to "understand" or "humanise" them is an insult.”
Trying to understand why two 10 year olds committed a horrendous crime is an insult? What utter rubbish.

The film is in focus now as it’s been shortlisting for an Oscar so the directors doing the rounds to drum up attention.
Upthread someone mentioned this would have been prevented if James has been in a pram etc I feel nothing but sympathy for Denise Bulger I personally wouldn’t judge her no one could have predicted what would happened. Also it wouldn’t have stopped the killers they had already attempted abduction of another child earlier that day they were determined in their act.

Vincent Lambe is a filmmaker who is well into his thirties and has not had a stellar career hitherto. He makes a film about James Bulger knowing that the family would object but goes ahead anyway. He has now been nominated for an Oscar which, according to his Instagram account, he is thrilled about. The crime in question was a complete one off. Vincent Lambe doesn’t have all the answers as to why this happened because he is a filmmaker, not a criminologist. He has made this film to boost his career and it has worked out brilinantly for him. I feel so incrysad for Denise Fergus and the rest of her family.

daisychain, how does it harm anyone to try to understand why this type of crime gets committed? Surely the more we understand the greater the chance we have of saving other lives?

Brady was an adult with a significant criminal record who killed at least five people in very carefully premeditated and planned crimes, and ultimately was diagnosed as a psychopath and locked up in a high security mental health hospital. Comparing him with these two 10 year old boys is, with every respect, absurd.

How much are we going to excuse their behaviour,

Who is trying to excuse it? Understanding does not mean excusing.

How can it be nominated for an Oscar when the nominations haven’t been announced yet??

The root cause of this crime was not deprivation and abuse because there are lots of brilliant, lovely people people from Bootle who had similar childhoods and didn’t kill two year old toddlers.

And with porn in ready supply on the Internet, and in widespread use in this country, in peoples homes where young people (like Venables and Thompson!) have ready access to via internet enabled devices I can only see the risks getting greater.

It's just been mentioned that Venables uses porn, conditioned from his childhood, It's scary how many MNers defend their right to use porn, yet when see in this context it just shows how society cannot join the dots - it's stuff that happens to other people not them.