To not know what to do about DS18 being vile to DD15

[Railwaychildren]

DS 18 and DD 15 have never been close, I don’t know why, we’ve brought them up the same, tried to treat the both of them equally etc but DS just will not tolerate DD at all.
I can’t really remember when this started, DS was ok when he was little and she came along, being a boy and a girl they’ve always had separate interests and toys but they used to play together occasionally etc.
The last few years DS has become considerably worse towards DD. He will hardly look at her, won’t speak to her apart from maybe one word and will treat her with total disdain. He’s actually become like it to DH and I over the last year or so too.
He’s an intelligent, nice lad and he’s not been any trouble. He’s always felt he was the ‘top dog’ academically of the pair of them but he’s had a shock this last year as after flying his GCSEs he absolutely bombed his AS levels as he simply didn’t put any work in. He became disdainful of DH and I and wouldn’t listen, telling us we didn’t know what we were talking about etc. Well the proof was in the pudding when he failed last August. As we knew he wasn’t putting the work in and preferring to spend all his time online gaming we insisted he got a PT job to keep his car running (that we bought, paid for lessons and helped insure). This PT job then became the reason he failed his AS levels of course, it was our fault.
Luckily he was offered a brilliant apprenticeship in the summer and we more or less insisted he took it rather than waste time resitting his AS levels and bumming around - he had absolutely no plans to go to university so we felt that this was the best option for him. It’s a fantastic opportunity with a huge global company with brilliant prospects. He goes every day but won’t tell us what he’s doing and share anything abou it at all. He just grunts at us, spends time in his room gaming when he’s not in work or out in his car. It feels like he’s punishing us for something (probably as we got firm over the AS levels) but he has everything! A lovely home, stable family etc. He’s 18 and wants to be treated like an adult but he barely acts like one.

So, back to DD, she gets a bit upset that he’s so dismissive but however hard she tries to be kind to him he will not engage. Today, things have come to a head - we live semi rurally and DS has gone out in his car. DD is here and is bored so asked if she could go on his Xbox to be able to game with her friend. He text almost immediately to me to demand that she gets off it. I explained that she would be careful and that she wasn’t hurting, I asked him to be kind and allow her to play as we are a little cut off - it’s how he mostly talks to his friends! So surely he’d understand? No, she’s to get off it and he’s putting a PIN on it when he gets home.

I feel so sad that he’s like this. I am so close to my siblings I can’t imagine being so vile just for the sake of it. There’ll be world war 3 now when he gets home and no doubt the silent treatment of me for days for allowing her on it. How to handle this? I’m at a loss.

If it’s any help to explain he had no idea AT ALL what career he wanted to do. He took maths, chemistry and biology at A Level because his friends took the same subjects. He did extremely well at GCSE with very little work and though 6th form would just be another 2 years of fringing around, an extension to school.
He was adamant he did not want to go to university, if asked now he will say he has no inclination to go. He likes life at home, he will say that. He is doing an engineering apprenticeship so not too far away from him AS level subjects. Imaginations are running wild on this thread.

I remember being obsessed with Halo's online multiplayer when I was younger. It took me ages to get to rank 30 and I was devastated when my mum let her friend's 10yo son 'have a quick go'. He absolutely destroyed my profile in a couple of hours and following that none of my online mates would play in ranked games with me for ages as it would've risked messing up their rank (matchmaking/ranking system is based on rank and skill elements).

Ignore the posters who are criticising you, OP. Unfortunately if you come on MN with a genuine family problem, especially with a grown upchild you will be be the villain plain and simple. As you say, you could have just let him lie around in his room playing his X-box and being nasty to his family and spongeing off them because its his choice as an adult .

You said he'll come into your bedroom for a chat and open up and its lovely, have you ever told him this?

I don't think I tell my DC this enough, that i really enjoy just listening to them. I know when I do we reconnect hugely, even just for a short time. I must do it more often.

Don't bother justifying anymore Railway. To a normal person, its obvious you've done your best. People really want to invent things to have a go at parents on MN, even the best ones no idea why.

I hope you find a resolution with your son. Your DD and you and DH deserve not be treated like crap in your own home. Good luck xx

Railway

You should have let him. If nothing else he would have learned a very valuable lesson. You can't do the same thing and expect different results. Now he will go through life wondering what if and will resent you for it because even though you are probably right that he wasted the opportunity he won't see it that way, and probably never will because unfortunately very few people are ever that honest with themselves. So now instead of him learning that lesson it will be forever your fault that he didn't get to finish his education, get a million A*, and get a first from Oxford and become the next Stephan Hawking.

That's why you need to let kids make their own mistakes. It's better to do something and fail at it (again) than go through life getting bitter from regrets.

Yes, I always make sure I let him know how much he is loved and that I enjoy spending one on one time with him. We have had in depth discussions around the school / apprenticeship thing. He knows that it’s the right path for him as an adult but it’s as though he’s finding the transition from school to the working world a bit of a struggle. And he keeps the moodiness and silences just for us, probably as he knows we tolerate it.

I think I personally would sit him down for a chat and highlight the rules of my house. Being polite, even if you can’t be friends, is a rule. I would admit that I misjudged the Xbox situation.

You cannot force them to be friends. Tell him he needs to be polite and tell her not to pander to him, your daughter should take a step back. I hated my sister at this age. We weren’t close until we hit our mid 20s. Everyone has to live in that house but he should at least be polite.

So, we should have let him fail, let him resist and (probably) fail again and then reach 18 / 19 and not be driving, see all his friends go off to uni or into an apprenticeship or work and let him just sort himself out?
All DH and I could see was a 30 year old still living at home being kept by us and gaming all day. He wasn’t going out apart from going to school, it was a struggle to get him to shower! Seems we can’t do right for doing wrong.

Moody silence is ok by the way, you just ignore it and let him get on with it.

I would charge a lot more board and save it up to help him move out to shared accommodation more quickly

Problem - 17 year old behaving like spoilt, selfish entitled brat treating everyone, particularly the females in his life, with disdain whilst wanting to sit around playing xbox doing nothing for a YEAR, thus failing his exams.
Answer according to most of MN - it’s your fault! You should have continued to facilitate him doing shit all for another year, in fact not only facilitating but also paying for him to do shit all, be rude and treat his sister like shit too.
And people wonder where all the lazy, nasty, entitled abusive men come from????

Christ - even better ....woman you should have ‘predicted his anger’ and adjusted your own normal behaviours of expecting family to share to prevent it.
“It’s not my fault I’m angry, you made me” ffs

Ignore the posters who are criticising you, OP. Unfortunately if you come on MN with a genuine family problem, especially with a grown upchild you will be be the villain plain and simple. As you say, you could have just let him lie around in his room playing his X-box and being nasty to his family and spongeing off them because its hischoiceas an adult.

I wasn't trying to be nasty. Just pointing out that many teenagers wouldn't be happy with a younger sister accessing one of their social media accounts without their permission.

You seem to put the value of success onto exam results and career choices. He's not a failure just because he didn't do well in his results and you're not his saviour for forcing him into an apprenticeship.

So your son didn't know exactly what he wanted to do when he left school - hardly something to criticize him for!

I'd guess he knows just what you think of him.

There are much deeper issues you need to address here.

No one was being nasty ffs, but look at the language used in the OP. Tells a thousand tales.

How many threads on MN have there been where a dc totally fucked up year 12. The advice is most often to get them to retake year 12, either at a different college, and/or doing a different course. Usually, the dc in question DOES learn the error of their ways and knuckles down. OP assumes he wouldn't have been able to do that which again says something about how he is viewed.

I'm sure OP is a decent enough parent, but sometimes it takes an outsider to notice that some aspects of your parenting have set up a scapegoat/ golden child situation.

Worth considering that's all.

I agree though he should be doing some chores!

He woujldn't have been gaming so much if you'd simply controlled the wifi access instead allowing him to dictate to you.

He pays less than £100 a month in rent from a wage of £1k, doesn't contribute towards bills or housework but still gets to call the shots on how he behaves in your house and how he treats it.
Yea, i can see why he has no real respect or consideration for any of you - you've never insisted on it.

Treat him like an adult.
You wouldn't allow a lodger to get away with this so why him?
He's always going to be your son but he's also an adult and you need to start treating him like one.

OP - what reasons does he give for being so unpleasant to his sister and to you and his dad?

I’ve not had to deal with this, but I had a very fraught relationship with my sister. My mum would’ve told you she didn’t treat us differently but she did and it fostered a massive amount of resentment. But no one ever listened to me, just said I was older and it was down to me to get on with her. It wasn’t until I left home to stay with family after a protracted period of difficulty that she realised how unhappy I was.

I’m not saying this is your situation - it’s just he sounds unhappy and that needs to be addressed. However that doesn’t give him license to behave horribly to you all and he needs to sort his behaviour out.

I’d be putting some very firm rules in place too - it’s not acceptable for your DD to be treated so badly.

Everyone going mad over the ruining a personal profile..

SET UP A SECOND PROFILE.

Sorry to shout but it's easy just use any Microsoft email address!!!!!!

He wasn't using it, ridiculous attitude not to let his sister have a go on it when he's not even in the house.

Quite a mix of responses on here. Would be interesting to know how many of the he should share/kick him out band have actually got children of a similar age.

In regard to the xbox it is his. That it was a gift /paid for by his parents is irrelevant. Presumably they also got something for the dd that she wanted. Did they make her buy something to share with her brother or did she get to pick what she wanted. If she had wanted to use an xbox then a shared one should have been purchased.

So, we should have let him fail, let him resist and (probably) fail again and then reach 18 / 19 and not be driving, see all his friends go off to uni or into an apprenticeship or work and let him just sort himself out*

You use the word probably but that means he might not have done .
He could have just pulled his socks up and passed with flying colours.

Now he can see his friends going off to uni or doing something they have chosen

You took away his options.

Ds didn't know what he wanted to do after school. We also have the added complication of him having SENs.

It took us sometime, revisiting the subject of career options daily/weekly to finally find what exactly he wanted to do.

You cannot leave him to it nor can you choose for him or only give him 1 or 2 options.

I had a DM like you who gave me 2 choices I chose 1 and looked happy going but hayed it so much that I left after 6 weeks.

I wanted to do something else but wasn't allowed to do it so I have spent my life going from one boring job after another.

I am NC with my mother who gave me an ultimatum.

Do as she said or get out.

Personally moving out with no where to go was better.

Noname9 you've twisted a situation in which sibling one is upset that sibling 2 was given access to their bedroom and private property by parent without permission and responsibilities by saying they're going to PIN protect it and twisted it into something it absolutely isn't. I'm all for absolutely cracking down on creating horrible gender role entitlement, but this scenario plays out identically with all participants the same sex, or with only dc1 female and a dad letting little brother into big sister's room to use her things.

This is a scenario where a parent treats their children like puppets trying to micromanage their relationship and life choices and then cries poor me I just wanted everyone to be happy when her puppets don't react as she wishes.