To not know what to do about DS18 being vile to DD15

[Railwaychildren]

DS 18 and DD 15 have never been close, I don’t know why, we’ve brought them up the same, tried to treat the both of them equally etc but DS just will not tolerate DD at all.
I can’t really remember when this started, DS was ok when he was little and she came along, being a boy and a girl they’ve always had separate interests and toys but they used to play together occasionally etc.
The last few years DS has become considerably worse towards DD. He will hardly look at her, won’t speak to her apart from maybe one word and will treat her with total disdain. He’s actually become like it to DH and I over the last year or so too.
He’s an intelligent, nice lad and he’s not been any trouble. He’s always felt he was the ‘top dog’ academically of the pair of them but he’s had a shock this last year as after flying his GCSEs he absolutely bombed his AS levels as he simply didn’t put any work in. He became disdainful of DH and I and wouldn’t listen, telling us we didn’t know what we were talking about etc. Well the proof was in the pudding when he failed last August. As we knew he wasn’t putting the work in and preferring to spend all his time online gaming we insisted he got a PT job to keep his car running (that we bought, paid for lessons and helped insure). This PT job then became the reason he failed his AS levels of course, it was our fault.
Luckily he was offered a brilliant apprenticeship in the summer and we more or less insisted he took it rather than waste time resitting his AS levels and bumming around - he had absolutely no plans to go to university so we felt that this was the best option for him. It’s a fantastic opportunity with a huge global company with brilliant prospects. He goes every day but won’t tell us what he’s doing and share anything abou it at all. He just grunts at us, spends time in his room gaming when he’s not in work or out in his car. It feels like he’s punishing us for something (probably as we got firm over the AS levels) but he has everything! A lovely home, stable family etc. He’s 18 and wants to be treated like an adult but he barely acts like one.

So, back to DD, she gets a bit upset that he’s so dismissive but however hard she tries to be kind to him he will not engage. Today, things have come to a head - we live semi rurally and DS has gone out in his car. DD is here and is bored so asked if she could go on his Xbox to be able to game with her friend. He text almost immediately to me to demand that she gets off it. I explained that she would be careful and that she wasn’t hurting, I asked him to be kind and allow her to play as we are a little cut off - it’s how he mostly talks to his friends! So surely he’d understand? No, she’s to get off it and he’s putting a PIN on it when he gets home.

I feel so sad that he’s like this. I am so close to my siblings I can’t imagine being so vile just for the sake of it. There’ll be world war 3 now when he gets home and no doubt the silent treatment of me for days for allowing her on it. How to handle this? I’m at a loss.

She is very careful and if the shoe was on the other foot she’d allow DS a go in a heartbeat. But he wasn't allowed the opportunity to give her a go - you'd already said yes. Of course he was going to kick back.

Stop trying to force them to get on and share nicely. They're not toddlers.

His general attitude sounds foul and I'd be having words about his general unpleasantness to everyone else in the house.

I have 2 DS both 17yo, I have to say that there is no way I'd let one have a go on xbox/whatever that belonged to the other - it's asking for trouble. However, if either of them had the attitude you describe from your DS or gave me the "silent treatment" for a few days at 18 yo, they will be out of my house extremely quickly, permanently.

I think you are honestly worrying too much.

Take a break, have a glass of wine. Tell them to work out their differences by themselves. Set in place some rules. Your are the mother, do what you think is right.
They are young and raging with hormones, it's second nature to 'hate' your sibling at some point. They will grow out of it eventually, if they don't then that doesn't mean you have done anything wrong, just because they share the same blood doesn't mean they are the same person, if they have differences it's fine. As long as they are both happy with themselves and healthy that's all that matters at 15 and 18. Let them ride it out OP. Good luck

How did you think letting her use his belongings without asking would help their relationship? That was not a wise decision and you should accept that and apologise to him.

However, as he is 18 it would be perfectly reasonable to set some ground rules for him. This would include him being at least civil to the people he lives with, taking his turn with the cleaning, cooking, etc. and generally starting to behave as an adult.

@Cherries101

Same. When people describe the problem being the attitude of the DC - 9 times out of 10 it's actually the parent's fault.

Absolute bullshit that it’s his and need to buy your DD her own! Yes it belongs to him but I’m assuming you bought it? Even if you didn’t you’re a family and he sits on your sofa and eats off of your plates eating your food? He needs to learn to share. If you were talking about toddlers not letting their sibling play with a toy everyone would be saying he needs to share, so why is it any different? As someone else said, stop sharing the Wi-fi if he kicks off about it.

I am the youngest and only girl. There are several years between me and my oldest 2 brothers.

For a long time when I was 13/14 and they were 17/18 We didn't get on at all. We were at different stages and they saw me as the annoying little sister. They eventually went to uni and it was only when I got to 17/18 that our relationship got a bit better.

I was always kind to my brothers but they could be awful to me. Wouldn't let me play on their computers, talk to them, touch their stuff etc etc.

Roll on many years and things are alot better .in fact the brother closest in age to me we got along much better (as siblings do) but he is now the worst towards me and our other siblings despite being grown mature adults

I just think it's where they are both in their lives. Explain to your dd it's not her and she should continue to be kind and things will be better

Tell your son that he needs to try and be kind to people he lives with and if he can't do that perhaps he needs to consider what he wants from life and try to get to uni?

It's his Xbox but your WiFi buy dd an Xbox and I'm sure he will find something else to moan about my 18 year old is home from uni I've spent the day separating her and her brother I'm tired I feel sick and she is showing off as her girlfriend is here my point is I've just cracked the whip on her (not physically) and she has wound her neck in and done the dishwasher for me it's a gesture but an appreciated one

He won't share his xbox when he's not using it. Ffs come on. That's just mean.

He sounds like he needs a kick up the arse

I haven’t brought them up to be like this to one another

Clearly, you have

No, you're wrong and unkind to say that. Siblings have fallen out since the dawn of time. You can't make siblings like each other or get on.

Your 18 year old sounds like a typical teenager. Boys do mature more slowly than girls and by the time he's 30 he'll probably be better.

In the meantime, I think it's reasonable to instigate some rules in your house. It's your home, your rules. In spite of teenager behaviour, it's up to you to demand behaviour of an acceptable standard.

Talk to your DH and draw up some house rules. It's essential you stick to them and apply sanctions if necessary.

You should not have lent his stuff to your daughter. It's not up to you.

I know loads of brothers/sisters who loathed each other at points during their childhood/teenage years. They'll sort it out - don't get too involved and nothing to worry about

FWIW I agree with some of the things you've done. I'd go mad if one of DC was in his room all day gaming expecting to live rent free and treat it like a hotel.

I do think you should not have let daughter use the XBOX. Def no- no on so many fronts. His belongings, is room, his privacy.

I think you need to pick your battles here. The Xbox probably wasn't the best idea.

It's a shitty way to treat his sibling, and it sounds like he's ungrateful for the support of his family as n general. But I would treat that as a separate issue from the fact that your daughter needs ways to connect with her mates in an environment where she's dealing with her brothers disdain.

I would address your daughter's situation first.

It sounds like time for him to move out and make his own way now. I'd buy her an xbox and let him use all his own stuff by himself in some bedsit.
He sounds really ignorant and arrogant.

i can’t believe some of the responses on here - it’s his property I mean really !! He is 18, lives with his family, who he shares a house with, and it’s a bloody Xbox for gods sake not his private journal!

If you are that selfish and ungracious in real life that you think no one should ever dare touch anyone else’s property ever then I really pity you. What would your responses be if OP was using her DHs Xbox to play games on and he kicked off ? Or if the DD was using Dad Xbox and he kicked off?

Anyway OP, don’t feel bad, family relationships are complicated, here are a few suggestions for you that could help them spend time together-
Get them working together in little ways- buying birthday/anniversary presents for you and DH, working to clear the garden, or decorate a room etc. Are you able to sit down together as a family at mealtimes ? Can you have some days out together ?

There’s the door and come back when you have grown up or you change today it’s that simple

At that age three years is a huge gap especially for brother/sister. My Brother and have always been close, but from 14-18 we were either butting heads or two strangers who lived in the same house. We reconnected again when I was 21 and he was eighteen. Our lives seemed to align again.

Don't let her go on his console. It's the same as letting her on his phone just because she is bored. The days of Nintendo64 are over. These days they contain a lot of private information - logged into social media accounts, mwssaging systems etc. They are not just for playing games any more.

I cannot BELIEVE the responses here. He sounds like an entitled little hit to be quite honest.
I think you need to start making his life a lot less pleasant and easy. I'd be cutting off the wifi for him for a start. Is he paying rent??

I'd be getting rid of it tbh. He sounds like my brother who became obsessed with gaming at that age, flunked his a levels, then his degree and now works in burger king. He was a shit head to me and my sister too.

HRTFT but I'm afraid I'd go straight out and buy my DD the most up-to-date xbox and lots of games, and put a pin on it that he doesn't know.

As for all those saying "It's his xbox - did he pay for it himself? I can understand a teenager not wanting a younger sibling to go on his laptop (because!) but not on the xbox.

I don’t know enough about xboxes to know whether or not he has a point.

Can she view his messages/browsing history? If she can then I think he has a point.

If it’s literally just she’s borrowed it while he isn’t using it to do her own seperate thing that doesn’t impinge on him then he’s overreacted.

I would try not to get in the middle of them- eg, next time she wants to borrow something of his tell her to text him not ask you.

When he is calm I would try and talk to him about his general behaviour and attitude. At 18 he needs to be contributing positively (not necessarily with money) to the household and it doesn’t sound like he is.

If its anything like my relationship with my brother then I doubt it will change your DS clearly has a bee in his bonnet about something unless you can get him to open up about it then it will stay the same.

We were both brought up the same if anything my parents went above and beyond to try to get him college places for courses, apprenticeships, tutors etc he would quit after a few weeks and didn't want to try.

I on the other hand was expected to get on with it, if he wanted something of mine I was selfish if I didn't give it to him but go near anything of his and world war 3 would break loose!

My brother has always reffered to me as the golden child, stuck up etc despite the fact that time, money and effort wise ten fold has been spent on/with him by my parents. He's 35 and this still has not changed from him being about 14.....

I've learnt to ignore his behaviour, jibes, don't engage in arguments with him. Your DD is probably going to have to accept that's the way he is and develop her own coping strategies.

There’s obviously a bigger issue with his attitude etc in general, but she should have asked him if she could use it, not you.

But the xbox will have the same stuff in a laptop that you would want private. Would you like someone on your phone where you have private messages.