that it has just hit me that this time next year I wont be an EU citizen

[garethsouthgatesmrs]

I know it's yet another brexit thread but it genuinely just hit me that it's actually happening THIS YEAR! I am truly gutted. Would love someone with political knowledge to come on and reassure me that it actually won't be that bad. I have 3 children who have to live with the repercussions.

buble is on jules holland-this has to be a good sign

Not all of us vote for selfish reasons

I don’t think considering what is best for British citizens and Britain itself is being selfish. That’s the entire point of the exercise.

Do I consider the happiness and well being of British people to be more important than people from the EU?

I think people are people who ever they are and where ever they are. I would vote for what I believe to be be in the best interests of the many. Although, at the moment I would vote for what would be the least damaging.

You might vote for what is best for Britain others take a more humanitarian decision.

@MtsAriadneOliver
Two points
1 thinking of brits - so what about those living here in UK with spouse from rUK?
2 the idea that whole point is thinking what’s best for Brits: am I wrong in thinking you omit the importance to Britain of having an open tolerant society welcoming to people from elsewhere?
2a there are very elderly folk living here since coming as children I WW2. If not citizens are now having to fill in forms to ask forsettlef status. Feel no longer welcome. Do you see this as something to be proud of? Because I don’t.

Am I wrong in thinking you omit the importance to Britain of having an open tolerant society welcoming to people from elsewhere?

I do think it is important, although not ‘open’ without limits.

There are very elderly folk living here since coming as children I WW2. If not citizens are now having to fill in forms to ask forsettlef status. Feel no longer welcome. Do you see this as something to be proud of? Because I don’t.

‘No longer feeling welcome’ is an emotional response. If they feel that way, I can’t help them. Why is anyone entitled to feel welcome? A more appropriate emotion would be gratitude. And citizenship should be a priority for those living here long-term.

I’m an immigrant myself. I don’t feel any country is supposed to make me feel welcome - that would be ridiculous. It’s a privilege to live in another country. A country and people should look after their own interests, not those of foreign nationals.

Only in Britain do we have this weird attitude.

You might vote for what is best for Britain others take a more humanitarian decision

You may think this makes you a better, more moral person, but a country’s duty is to its citizens - not the world.

a country’s duty is to its citizens - not the world
Well said.

@AriadneOliver
The point about those elderly people is they DID feel welcome because we brits went out of our way to reach out the hand of shelter and friendship over 70 years ago and now suddenly a form to fill in. Our European neighbours don’t engage in such irrational behaviour. It’s an expression of xenophobia pure and simple.

@Walkingdeadfangirl
@MrsAriadneOliver
a country’s duty is to its citizens - not the world
Well said.
And therein lies the global problem. The I'm alright Jack personal mentality writ large for the purpose of nationhood.

and now suddenly a form to fill in.

A form?

Our European neighbours don’t engage in such irrational behaviour.

They may implement something similar following Brexit. I'm sure that will be seen as satisfying punishment to some on here though, particularly the poster upthread who hoped in a silver lining in ex-pats losing access to healthcare. I said some pages back people relish the idea of absolute chaos and disruption to Brits post-Brexit but at the same time saying how chaos and disruption to EU citizens was awful. I don't understand some people's mindsets tbh... but, as evidenced by this thread, people don't understand mine either.

And therein lies the global problem. The I'm alright Jack personal mentality writ large for the purpose of nationhood.

Yes, it is a global problem. What do you propose?

@AriadneOliver
The country is its citizens. I do take into account moral factors- I do not wish my following generations to inherit a nation filled with narrow-minded xenophobes. It would be a failure of governance. I don’t advocate unthinking action but nor do I see it as a viable approach to sustainable societies to narrow the mind to a state in which it can’t see beyond one’s own petty interests. We are humans first and citizens second. You describe having come from a different culture so I also remind myself that what I say and what you make of it can be very different. So I acknowledge to you that I come from a place of wanting to understand as well as wanting to protect those 80 and 90 year olds being suddenly faced by uncertainty in their basic security.

Helping others helps yourself.

Giving aid to developing countries stems the flow of migrants.

Working together is not a weakness it's a strength. Cooperation is not something to be despised it is something to be aspired to. Seeking similarities not differences helps us all. Unity is strength.

Brexit is all about me, mine, my country, my little kingdom, what's in it for me, what do I get, stop them, stop him, turn your back, walk away. It appeals to the worst instincts of people.

Our European neighbours don’t engage in such irrational behaviour. It’s an expression of xenophobia pure and simple

Of course it’s not. No one hates them. But don’t you think perhaps they should have taken some personal responsibility for their situation and applied for citizenship years ago? And it’s a form to fill in for goodness sake, hardly the end of the world.

Our European neighbours don’t engage in such irrational behaviour

Absolutely untrue.

In Spain, you’re treated like dirt when going to the town hall to submit residency papers. The officials won’t even speak to you, just shoo you away.

Elderly people having lived in Spain most of their adult lives cannot apply for citizenship. They’re having to apply for private healthcare. And yet it seems harsh to you that if people don’t want the privilege of applying for citizenship, we’re asking them to fill in a form?

@Hawkinspace

I do not wish my following generations to inherit a nation filled with narrow-minded xenophobes

Well neither do I, of course not!

But what is the point of a nation state if not to protect and nurture those who inhabit it?

What is so wrong with putting our interests first? Not to ignore the sufferings of others and neglecting to give aid and help as we feel we can, but making sure we provide and protect UK citizens first and foremost?

"U.K. first" the cry of the Brexit voter.

A bit of nationalism is always useful in elections and never causes any problems.....

@Hawkinspace

I do agree with you, by the way! I realise I sounded ranty, it’s not on purpose

U.K. first" the cry of the Brexit voter. A bit of nationalism is always useful in elections and never causes any problems....

But there’s nothing wrong with that!

Only in Britain. Honestly. No other country has this problem.

@Moussemoose

If we don’t put the UK first then, who will?

Who are we supposed to put first? Everyone else?

Well yes lots of other countries do have issues with nationalism.

Many people across the world support international organisations that seek to find similarities and not differences. Organisations that look to focus on similarities and not differences. Organisations that help us work together. Lots of people think that an organisation that wants to help everyone in a region and not just the few is a good thing.

In fact some people think that working together and helping each other is so important they they have developed a an organisation called the European Union.

See it's a union or European countries so we can help each other.

I am confused. I always thought you could only be a citizen of a country. We are and will remain British citizens. There is no country called Europe.

We could try putting people first.

Does it really matter if those people are black, white, pink, green, French, Spanish or (god forbid) Eritrean?

1992 Maastricht Agreement introduced EU citizenship.

Unfortunately our own governments are usually not too keen on putting its own citizens first are they
though ? Too often corporate interests trump those of the ordinary people .... look at the disaster of Tory inflicted privatisation ? Schools turned into academies, prisons and probation service privatised,legal aid cut, nhs broken up and asset stripped... oh yes I’m sure our government is out there looking after our interests lol and things will be fine once we’ve left the Eu

See it's a union or European countries so we can help each other

Other nations seem to get along just fine without?

try putting people first

That’s just pie in the sky. Much as we’d like to, we can’t help everyone. It would be wonderful if we could, but we can’t. So we have to do what we feel we can do while still serving the interests of those born here.

Unfortunately our own governments are usually not too keen on putting its own citizens first are they though ? Too often corporate interests trump those of the ordinary people

I don’t disagree with you there. But that’s what they’re supposed to be there for!

EU citizenship is supplementary to national citizenship.