@Moussemoose
I don't live in a country the mostly believes in creationism! I live in the U.K.
It was an analogy, as I said in my post. I said that you may well base your arguments in reason, logic etc, and I’m with you. I’d do the same. But some people don’t operate along those lines, and they don’t have to. You and I probably believe in evolution because it’s scientifically proven, but some people believe in creationism despite scientific proof to the contrary. Many voters - the majority, in fact, given the referendum result - seem to have based their vote on feeling of xenophobia, a sense of “freedom”, a distaste of foreign intervention, not the facts and figures of how EU membership is in their provable economic and (arguably provable) social favour. (Of course many Leavers based their votes on reasons that had nothing to do with xenophobia etc, but I don’t believe they were the majority of Leavers). But they’re entitled to feel this way and exercise their votes this way. My point is, to really labour the analogy, in the UK you are evidently surrounded by a small majority who either don’t care enough or do care but vote along non-logical lines (like creationists do). Your UK isn’t everyone’s UK and that’s the point. Your country is profoundly divided. There are probably as many inward looking xenophobes as there are outward looking liberals.
The point about discussion and debate is that we are on a discussion board. The implication of joining a discussion based thread is that you will errrrr discuss. Brexit supporters refuse to discuss using anything apart from sound bites. People can vote on any basis they want - as you say - but we are a discussion board with all that implies.
They don’t want to discuss! Why should they? YOU want to discuss. You can’t force someone to engage or justify or explain their votes. That’s why these MN threads on Brexit all go the same way. Remainers: discuss! Debate! Let us show you the errors of your ways! Brexiters: erm, no thanks. Result: as you say, it’s a discussion board, except there’s no discussion so it’s just two sides becoming more and more entrenched and wound up 🤷♀️
You suggested that opposition was not a useful function of democracy and we should all just get behind the initial referendum decision. I feel that type of thinking is very dangerous to democracy. Referenda were used and abused by Hitler with that kind of argument.
Your accidental or deliberate misunderstanding of my point is lazy and dangerous. I said argument is best avoided. Discussion and debate is good. I said nothing at all about opposition (it’s good). I do think you should all get behind the result and get on with it, but I didn’t say why (but now you ask it’s because I believe the alternatives would be significantly more damaging to the long term stability of the country than non-membership of the EU). Democracy does not mean liberalism (red or blue) wins and if it doesn’t you keep voting until you get the answer you want, despite the first referendum being binding (I’m not a subscriber to the argument that referenda are advisory; nobody ever contended that successfully before, what’s so special this time?). Your reference to Hitler is embarrassingly misplaced.
It is strange that you think a belief in opposition, argument and securing democracy is insulting to others. I think asking people to step up and engage intellectually is the opposite of insulting. I trust people to be able to put forward arguments I'm not insulting them I'm changing them. You are the one who suggests people are voting against logic not me. I think that is rather insulting.
This makes no sense to me, I find it garbled thinking. I’ll just reiterate: nobody owes you a justification or explanation for their vote, nobody is obliged to have a logical rationale for their vote, let alone “intellectually engage” with you after they’ve voted. It sounds like you want Leavers to account for their position, to be open to debate, presumably so you can convince them of the fallacious basis for their vote. THAT is extremely arrogant and insulting. Perhaps they’re way more “intellectually engaged” than you but decided they wanted to vote on emotive grounds (patriotism, freedom, I don’t know what).
You are placing reason, logic, intellectualism above all else in your argument. That’s the VERY point: the vast majority of Leavers, in my opinion, abhor or don’t care much for this. They have other, more important TO THEM, considerations.
These are your compatriots. Your country is divided. Brexit isn’t the problem. It’s just the manifestation of underlying divisions. But it’s too late to fix those divisions, so the best thing is surely to make the best of what you’ve got now?