that it has just hit me that this time next year I wont be an EU citizen

[garethsouthgatesmrs]

I know it's yet another brexit thread but it genuinely just hit me that it's actually happening THIS YEAR! I am truly gutted. Would love someone with political knowledge to come on and reassure me that it actually won't be that bad. I have 3 children who have to live with the repercussions.

buble is on jules holland-this has to be a good sign

Yes, contributions to the EU budget only represent 1% of tax spendings. Now think for a minute of the COSTS of Brexit already piling up! No economies of scale anymore by pooling our resources with 27 other countries, the costs in terms of jobs going, the infrastructure to be set up to cope (100+ million quid for those bloody ferries are nothing compared to what's to come) etc.
The referendum may have been the biggest exercise in democracy in decades but it's leading to the most expensive mistake in history too! Anyway, democracy is defined by the exercise of it, which means it can never be set in stone. We can democratically decide we'd rather not drive the country into the wall.

Why can't leavers respond in the same way? If their arguments are well thought out, logical and backed up by facts why can't they just explain these brilliant arguments?

Well, there's no need to really. Leavers have already stated their case and won by a majority. Also, remainers tend not to be genuinely interested outside of trying to pick apart any potential benefit put forward (their mind is already made up).

The above can be seen in this thread where posters have mentioned possible benefits and the remainers are still whining "b-b-but nobody can give any benefits."

TheVoice. Our EU membership fees are around £8bn-£9bn a year. A CBI literature review suggests that the net benefit of EU membership to the UK could be in the region of 4-5% of GDP or £62bn-£78bn a year.

It’s like paying for a pitch at a car boot sale. You sell your stuff and make money. And that’s without the other benefits of cooperative research & development. Pooling resources and working together on projects saves money (and broadens the knowledge and talent pool).

The ‘sending vast sums to the EU’ rhetoric is nonsense.

The Commission proposes legislation it is then debated and adapted in the EU Parliament. The Council of Minsters also votes on legislation.

The Commission is the equivalent of the civil service. U.K. legislation is proposed by MPs but drafted by civil servants.

The Commission proposes legislation to curb the power of the EU parliament in relation to EU law. If MEPs could propose legislation then some MEPs might seek to introduce laws outside of the EUs remit.

I've just read the entire thread and have yet to see any benefit outlined by any leaver.

Thevoice
The above can be seen in this thread where posters have mentioned possible benefits
Sorry, I missed that, which posts (just time stamps will do) ?

TheVoiceOfRaisin but nobody has mentioned any benefits!

Just saying 'freedom' isn't an argument.

But as I posted above, our trade with the EU has been steadily falling. Some economists have posited that we are better to address this now than wait for the inevitable.

Just saying 'freedom' isn't an argument.

What about if you paint your face and yell it at the top of your lungs, Wallace style?

Some economists...

Which ones @TheVoiceofRaisin?

The amount we pay in contributions to the EU budget is repaid many times over by the added value to our economy as a result of being in the single market. Successive governments have known that being members of the EU is very economically beneficial - we get more money out of our membership through increased GDP than we pay in contributions. The economic benefit has never been in question.

The trouble is, it's difficult to quantify that to an exact financial value that you can stick on the side of a bus.

Western economy's are struggling in the face of the rise of China and India.

That does not mean it's time to jump ship, you stand together and work together to build a stronger future. The EU is facing a variety of crises political and economic. That does not mean you run away.

When the U.K. (and the US incidentally) has tried to turn its back on Europe it has failed. We need to work together not run away.

Love this! Fuck ‘em, eh! Shouldn’t even have given them a vote. Maybe only those who pass a stringent test should be allowed to vote?

Don't be ridiculous. People were asked a black and white question about a complex issue that most of the population weren't equipped, intellectually or educationally, to give a reasoned answer to, and about which they were repeatedly and deliberately lied to by politicians and the media.

I've just read the entire thread and have yet to see any benefit outlined by any leaver.

Another poster who clearly isn’t bothered by animal welfare then.

@Mistigri
If you’d actually bothered to read my reply in context, I was being sarcastic

A PP suggested that those living in areas which voted to leave were ‘stupid and uninformed’

And to answer your question I think leavers are xenophobic, little england, narrow minded, thick as pigshit

An excellent example of a remain voter who would effectively destroy the chances of a remain outcome if another vote were to take place.

Precisely.

@moussemoose

This is my point. You base your vote on logic, reason, rationality. Many (more!) didn’t. And they didn’t need to. For them, their feeling of “freedom” is enough. That’s democracy. One person, one vote, and they don’t have to justify it to you or anyone else.

I think your type of position is probably highly insulting to many, and the brand of superiority you demonstrate could well be what people voted against. I mean, I agree with you, to me it’s like science vs creationism. But you live in a country that mostly believes in creationism (to follow the analogy). Now what are you going to do?

On a personal note, I think you also exemplify the point I was trying to make. Even if I live in a glass house, what difference does it make to the net result for you if you get to tell me that my democracy is worse than yours (which on balance it probably is)?

Dongdingdong
Another poster who clearly isn’t bothered by animal welfare then.
Leaving the EU will not save the lives of those calves.
UK farmers will still sell them far away for the best price.
try again

Still waiting to hear what positives people are expecting from Brexit
that cannot happen inside the EU

Ok, I'll try again. I voted Remain but am prepared to support the WA as the least worst realistic Leave option. The other option is No Deal which would be a humanitarian catastrophe.
Leavers, are you prepared to support WA over No Deal?

Some economists...

^Which ones@TheVoiceofRaisin?^

I'll let you read it yourself.

Article: Ignore the Brexit scare stories - they have no basis in sound economics

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/brexit-scare-stories-ashoka-mody-imf-bank-of-england-mervyn-king-economics-trade-a8670416.html%3famp

I seeem to recall it was the EU who has stopped battery egg farming, and the UK who whinged about it?

I'm more bothered about human welfare. And how is leaving the EU going to improve animal welfare? Or did I miss the memo that said we'll all go vegan?

contributions to the EU budget only represent 1% of tax spendings
All this fuss over an average cost of EU membership of £29 per person per year.
What a waste of time, energy and money, this brexit thing is.

animal welfare

I'd have more time for the animal welfare argument if you were to explain how you're going to get a US trade deal without opening the UK market to hormone-fed beef and chlorine-washed chicken.

I'll try again: Any takers from the Leave hordes for WA?
Plenty from the Remain side because shit Deal is better than No Deal.