that it has just hit me that this time next year I wont be an EU citizen

[garethsouthgatesmrs]

I know it's yet another brexit thread but it genuinely just hit me that it's actually happening THIS YEAR! I am truly gutted. Would love someone with political knowledge to come on and reassure me that it actually won't be that bad. I have 3 children who have to live with the repercussions.

buble is on jules holland-this has to be a good sign

Discussion, debate and argument make a democracy function

As long as everyone agrees with you, eh @Mousse?

Libya is not in the EU. So why would immigration and asylum from Libya have anything to do with the EU?

The U.K. immigration policy from non EU countries has nothing to do with the EU.

Please question our asylum policy, you have every right to do so.

But it has nothing to do with the EU.

So why on a thread about the EU and EU policy would you bring up something that has absolutely and totally nothing to do with the EU?

Because a lot of them were quite stupid

Love this! Fuck ‘em, eh! Shouldn’t even have given them a vote. Maybe only those who pass a stringent test should be allowed to vote?

As a nation our long term strategic planning and political vision is utterly stunted. Brexit isn't the solution to that. It's a symptom of long term self serving politicians exploiting public ignorance for their own ends. And being of spectacularly low quality. People voted against the system because they were sick of it but its only enabled more of it.

Not half. What else can you expect of a nation ideologically opposed to planning and organisation of any kind. Free market, yaay. Free markets with rest of the world (that we had in the EU, but anyway). Freedom to starve.

@MrsTwiddle
Change happens and generally it may not be very comfortable but that’s life.
What positive changes are you expecting from Brexit?

MrsAraidne - How will Brexit keep terrorists out? That ship has sailed. Many terrorists are homegrown. Others will find a way in regardless, or get someone already here to do their work. Borders are largely a red herring. Terrorists are not “outside” and you can shut the door on them. The enemy is within us.

@moussemoose

Discussion, debate are great! Maybe not so much argument, no need for that.

However, all this “I’m just waiting for one Brexiter to come up with just one little idea, with data... no? Nothing? Didn’t think so” doesn’t constitute debate or discussion, does it?

Where I am is irrelevant.

As long as everyone agrees?

Absolutely not. Opposition is a vital function to democracy. Pressure groups, political parties, freedom of speech and free press are key factors in a functioning democracy.

However, it would help if the discussion was fact based and featured explanations rather just using abstract nouns as a QED argument.

Our capacity to coordinate security information with the EU looks set to be hampered by Brexit. The police and security services have said it. Our borders do not have enough staff to cope with any hard exit - from a managed on to a no deal one.

Our resources will be more stretched and will not have as much information. So early detection will be harder thus risking more serious security breeches and incidents.

Whether they be domestic only, EU linked or more internal in nature.

*more international sorry

It doesn't constitute a debate because no one answers!

There have been several threads about why the EU is positive that have been packed with responses.

If you are slinging stones at the glass house that is the U.K. (and it is) it is very relevant to know where you are standing.

@Pa10ma

I agree with you, and of course I don’t think that Brexit can keep terrorists out! I agree that that ship has long since sailed.

Why do remainers never talk about the vast sums of money we were obliged to contribute to the EU?

@moussemoose I think you may need your sarcasm radar reconfigured

Vast sums?

However, it would help if the discussion was fact based and featured explanations

I hope you’ll agree with me then that this, from a Remainer, isn’t a particularly helpful contribution?

And to answer your question I think leavers are xenophobic, little england, narrow minded, thick as pigshit

@thevoiceofraisin
Why do remainers never talk about the vast sums of money we were obliged to contribute to the EU?
Because they are less than 1/20 of the amount spent on debt interest
less than 1/5 of the amount spent on pensions
the EU is a tiny part of the UK budget

Several hundred million a week is a small sum?

Some remainers have been abusive. Some leavers have been abusive.

However, on MN the 3 fact question has been asked repeatedly and I have not seen one response that stands up to scrutiny.

See below, a leavers asks about the U.K. contribution 2 posts later we get a factual response that is both interesting and informative and responds directly to the leavers point.

Why can't leavers respond in the same way? If their arguments are well thought out, logical and backed up by facts why can't they just explain these brilliant arguments?

The amount spent on pensions for UK citizens should rightly be significantly higher than the amount given to other countries.

To my personal purse of course not.

In the grand scheme of international budgets and the benefit of paying it, I’d say it’s a reasonable amount.

It might be time to get my Irish passport as my father was born in Leitrim

Maybe only those who pass a stringent test should be allowed to vote?

I fundamentally disagree with this.

There is a problem though. The media is supposed to act as a filter for information to the public. It is supposed to say whether Mr x from the y party is spouting utter bollocks. The problem has come as social media has broken down that role and made it financially impossible for traditional media to do that effectively whilst social media has no filter at all.

The net result is the public - who used to be able to trust what they were told, no longer do, but they also have not developed the skills to critically examine what they are told, or lack the time to, or simply are not interested enough to take enough of an interest to look beyond the surface.

It's not about being stupid. It's about people often just falling into the habit of believing what they'd like to hear and ignoring things that are more challenging or difficult or controversial.

People haven't got time to look up what WTO does or doesn't mean. Or what the EU really does. Or doesn't do.

Cos they don't really care.

There's many highly intelligent people who ultimately fall into this. They feel secure enough that if it's bad, they'll ultimately be fine anyway or conversely think it can't get any worse than it already is and they have nothing left to lose.

Politics are complicated and boring. That's a turn off for most. And that's the real issue.

The EU is a democratic organisation. We vote for MEPs. We have a significant influence on the Council of Ministers.

We get to vote.

We don't however, get to vote for the commissioners who actually have the power to make and change legislation.

And to answer your question I think leavers are xenophobic, little england, narrow minded, thick as pigshit

An excellent example of a remain voter who would effectively destroy the chances of a remain outcome if another vote were to take place.

@thevoiceofraisin
Several hundred million a week is a small sum?
Yes, in terms of a National Government budget
its change down the back of the sofa
and ceasing those payments will not make a difference to UK services in any way