that it has just hit me that this time next year I wont be an EU citizen

[garethsouthgatesmrs]

I know it's yet another brexit thread but it genuinely just hit me that it's actually happening THIS YEAR! I am truly gutted. Would love someone with political knowledge to come on and reassure me that it actually won't be that bad. I have 3 children who have to live with the repercussions.

buble is on jules holland-this has to be a good sign

I see my point about our steadily falling trade with the EU has been conveniently ignored.

Ok @TheVoiceOfRaisin - WA or No Deal?

I see my point about our steadily falling trade with the EU has been conveniently ignored.
Because its irrelevant.
How will Brexit make the UK better and stronger?

I'd have more time for the animal welfare argument if you were to explain how you're going to get a US trade deal without opening the UK market to hormone-fed beef and chlorine-washed chicken.

Are we talking about trade or environmental issues here?

Krugman was quoted above about dismissing anti Brexit stories, but he also posted this tweet in THE SAME THREAD. He may quibble about precise numbers, but that quibble does not mean he endorses Brexit.

Neither does Mervyn King support how Brexit is happening (other screenshot is excerpt from his article in Guardian 4 weeks ago).

On thé other side of the coin I’ve seen nothing but whining from remainers and nothing that has been put forward that makes me think that been in the EU is not just paying for a load of parasites with noses in the trough.
Paying for countries that are not far off third world countries that have corruption beyond crazy and with nothing but debts and nothing to offer bar giving there criminals free access to all Europe is not Exactky a good thing.
Countries that don’t follow any of the rules and agreements that been part of the EU was meant to make equal.
Paying beyond crazy expenses and wages to those no one voted for in Brussels and been unable to remove them.
Not been able to produce off all my land because of EU rules on set aside leaving 30 percent of all arable land across the uk unused each year
Just a few reasons along with many many more

I don't live in a country the mostly believes in creationism! I live in the U.K.

The point about discussion and debate is that we are on a discussion board. The implication of joining a discussion based thread is that you will errrrr discuss. Brexit supporters refuse to discuss using anything apart from sound bites. People can vote on any basis they want - as you say - but we are a discussion board with all that implies.

You suggested that opposition was not a useful function of democracy and we should all just get behind the initial referendum decision. I feel that type of thinking is very dangerous to democracy. Referenda were used and abused by Hitler with that kind of argument.

It is strange that you think a belief in opposition, argument and securing democracy is insulting to others. I think asking people to step up and engage intellectually is the opposite of insulting. I trust people to be able to put forward arguments I'm not insulting them I'm changing them. You are the one who suggests people are voting against logic not me. I think that is rather insulting.

So BeLeavers having fun with dead arguments rather than answering the question WA or No Deal.

This is a change in the way we trade with the EU, not an end to trade with the EU.

The EU is the pits when it comes to making free trade deals with the rest of the world. It doesn’t have a free trade deal with China or the US. Why doesn’t the EU have trade deals with the two biggest economies in the world?

Il try you @MrsAriadneOliver - WA or No Deal. binary choice.

@thevoiceofraisin
Are we talking about trade or environmental issues here?
They are one and the same.
Financial tariffs are trivial
the limits to trade are ALL about standards
the EU bans almost all US meat because of the welfare standards
The USA has predicated a trade deal on accepting US meat
(and thus killing UK agriculture)

Because its irrelevant.
How will Brexit make the UK better and stronger?

How is it irrelevant?

We are leaving a trade agreement that has been increasingly less beneficial over the past two decades, and I've posted evidence of economists stating their opinions that there it's logical to fast forward to the inevitable conclusion.

Unless you can give me a good reason why they're wrong then my point still stands.

@Maryjoyce, we're after benefits, love, not a load of unsubstantiated rhetoric.

@Bluelady
You won’t get far with that patronising attitude!

Our capacity to coordinate security information with the EU looks set to be hampered by Brexit. Mmmm. The EU will of course not want any access whatsoever to the intelligence we are party to via the Five Eyes. It works both ways.

The ‘sending vast sums to the EU’ rhetoric is nonsense.

Indeed it is complete and utter nonsense. Yet the PM perpetuates it? Why?

I know I'm late to the thread but why do posters echo the bus and our esteemed PM? Why perpetuate the myth and exaggerate the small EU membership fee we paid? The govs own chart helps give an accurate picture.

The EU membership fee was tiny and was in return for unrestricted access to a very lucrative trading bloc.

But look how much is spent on health. Make no mistake, our drastic fall in GDP from leaving the EU will be used as an endless excuse to curb any form of health or welfare spending, that's a more realistic target for savings.

MrsAriadne
Why doesn’t the EU have trade deals with the two biggest economies in the world?
Because the EU team are the best in the world and will not roll over to US or Chinese bullying

The USA has dire animal welfare standards
China has huge issues with government intrusion into business - see Huawei

the UK team will roll over
which will be BAD for the UK

@bellinisurge
I have to admit that I don’t know. I’m still thinking about your question.

@mousemoose

You’ve misunderstood all my points, not sure why. I’m not invested enough in this issue to labour them.

Good luck!

The choice we have is the withdrawal agreement on the table, no deal, or revoke & remain. To echo Bellini, those who still want to leave, which is your preferred option out of the withdrawal agreement, or no deal?

What's to think about @MrsAriadneOliver . Do you think all these dire descriptions of likely no deal outcomes are being made up just to piss you off.

Why doesn’t the EU have trade deals with the two biggest economies in the world?
I suspect that's because though they may be the 2 biggest economies in the world, they also produce a lot of poor quality produce that we may not want. Definition of free trade: international trade left to its natural course without tariffs, quotas, or other restrictions.
The EU won't just take any old crap, that's why.

Ta1k The USA has predicated a trade deal on accepting US meat

One doesn't have to buy it though, any more than I would buy a French turkey for Christmas in the UK. I'd get one reared locally.

There are plenty of products on the shelves both in the UK and Belgium, that I won't buy, both from EU member states and the US because I don't like them, (French apples and drinks with corn syrup as opposed to sugar being a particular bugbear).

I also find it interesting that some of the Americans I know won't shop in local supermarkets in Belgium, but will drive to the nearest US base/PX to buy their meat etc, as they don't trust EU meat standards!

And if no deal, how are you comfortable with the ramifications it has for the NHS and drug supply? That's the bit I genuinely don't understand when anyone says they are sanguine about no deal. My DM for example is on a cocktail of medicines, without which her life would be limited in the first instance and probably shortened in the medium term (add to which she's going through chemotherapy now too). My MP wasn't able to offer any assurances on the supply of her drugs in the event of no deal. He wrote to the Minister for Health, and the reply we had from them wasn't very reassuring - it certainly didn't give any assurances at all on the specific list of medications.

7salmonswimming that is a very Brexit response.

I went through your posts in detail and attempted to address your points in good faith. I may have got them wrong but I explained and discussed.

You came back with "You’ve misunderstood all my points, not sure why. I’m not invested enough in this issue to labour them."

No explanations, no details, no facts. A rebuttal with no attempt to explain. That sums up the whole Brexit debate - or rather lack thereof.

You simply say "no you're wrong, I'm going"

Look at the recent discussions. A leaver asked about the U.K. contributions saying no one mentions it and then loads of remainers come on explaining, posting graphs, discussing the issue. Remainers are happy to debate leavers disappear.