that it has just hit me that this time next year I wont be an EU citizen

[garethsouthgatesmrs]

I know it's yet another brexit thread but it genuinely just hit me that it's actually happening THIS YEAR! I am truly gutted. Would love someone with political knowledge to come on and reassure me that it actually won't be that bad. I have 3 children who have to live with the repercussions.

buble is on jules holland-this has to be a good sign

RaisonVoice
Well, there is the whole autonomy thing. There have been instances where the EU has blocked us from extraditing terrorists - wasn't this the case with Abu Hamza at one point? Crown and Supreme court wanted him out but Brussels overruled

I think you will find that that was the Court of Human Rights not the EU. We are not leaving the Cof HR ( thank God).
And still hoping we won’t be leaving the EU - still time to Revoke.

@Togaandsandals I’m Australian and the only EU country that offers a two year unrestricted working permits to Australians (under the age of 31) is the UK. Most EU countries offer 12 month work permits for Australians under. The US offers an essentially unlimited work permit for Australians if they have a degree and a job offer, and Canada offers a two year work permit for under 30s.

As someone who came to the UK via a working holiday then employer sponsorship to eventual citizenship, not being a British (or EU) citizen has certainly caused both real problems and minor inconveniences in the past, from having to jump far higher hurdles to get a mortgage to simply waiting 3 hours in immigration in Oslo due to having to go through the non-EU line!

(I voted to stay because why cut off your nose to spite your face?!)

TheVoice. No, it was an ECHR judgement, nothing to do with the EU.

OP. I’m sad.

{Weren't we turned down when we first attempted to join? I think the French veto'd us}
Yes, Charles de Gaulle was not at all keen and the UK only joined the forerunner to the EU after he died.
I am not sure if it was his observation of the British mentality as an 'island' nation as being a reason for him thinking the UK was not suited.
The British army already fight alongside other European armies so an EU army would be more a case of better integration rather than forming a new outfit. With Trump messing about and wanting to leave NATO having an army to defend Europe against Russia and various others is pretty important.
No country can be completely 'autonomous'. Abu Hamsa was just one guy, admittedly a very unpleasant one.

There have been instances where the EU has blocked us from extraditing terrorists - wasn't this the case with Abu Hamza at one point? Crown and Supreme court wanted him out but Brussels overruled

Nope.

The ECtHR is nothing to do with the EU.

Not that the Daily Telegraph seemed to understand that either.

The EU court of justice oversees compliance with EU Directives yes those things that gave us decent maternity rights , paternity rights and a host of environmental laws to protect this planet from ourselves.

The European Court of Human Rights upholds the Human Rights convention .

I agree with the OP that Brexit is awful. I feel ashamed to admit to being English or British when abroad, and am very glad if I can speak enough of the local language to avoid having to acknowledge this.

However, I will still be European even when the UK has left the EU.

Brexit is going to be tough. I get that.
But wouldn't it have been made easier if our politicians hadn't played silly games undermining each other? That's what I'm embarrassed about. Surely we would have looked a lot stronger if our politicians put on a united front and maybe got us some sort of deal
IMO there's no point in doing a 2nd referendum as no matter what happens a great percentage of the population will be angry with the result. The next bit will be difficult but we will come through this and find our feet within the global economy.

Hailstone
The next bit will be difficult but we will come through this and find our feet within the global economy

How exactly can you give an example of how things will be so much better when all the economic forecasts are so pessimistic?

God, not this one again

Well, it bears consideration. Junker is certainly keen. It’s not as far-fetched as you seem to think.

Just to make it clear it was not the EU but the ECHR. We will remain a member of the ECHR.

The U.K. was instrumental in the setting up of the ECHR it is one of the things the U.K. can be rightly and wholly proud of.

So apologies, recognition that you made a mistake...

We are about to leave the EU and you still don't know the difference between the ECJ and the ECHR. Good grief.

Shall we all start a chorus of "It's a lavly day to- morro, to- morro is a LAV-LY day". Best Vera Lynn voices. C'mon, chaps!

How exactly can you give an example of how things will be so much better when all the economic forecasts are so pessimistic

Oh apparently NOONE has any idea at all. It’s a complete and utter mystery what happens when you leave 40 yrs of agreements over trade, travel, security, Ireland etc. Experts know nothing. That’s why leave is so good, you see.

I feel ashamed to admit to being English or British when abroad

I think, on balance, we have more to be proud of than ashamed of. All things considered.

Surely for all the BeLeaver bluster and silliness, no one on here who is a parent or carer is assuming "everything will be ok" if we go No Deal. Surely people are privately making even the smallest plans to get extra food in, for example.
No one would be that fucking stupid in real life

It's not a nuclear holocaust, FFS.

Oh well. Turns out I was wrong. Some people are.

Well if isn't not a nuclear holocaust so it's ok. Good news!

What a fucking comparison. Brexit won't involve a nuclear winter so it must be fine. Bring on the famine and the natural disasters it's not a nuclear holocaust so it's fine.

Can you even hear yourselves?

Togaandsandals

I didn't say 'just a bit of paperwork'. I said 'paperwork' was 'involved'.

Please lets not ignore all of the UK born people who live all over the world (the world is not the EU).

I feel ashamed to admit to being English or British when abroad

You need to seriously have a word with yourself.

If you are ashamed to live in a society where a democratic vote took place, you really, truly need to examine where that feeling comes from.

@fleuriepensinula, thank you for the info. Duh, I don’t know why but I had it in my mind that racecardriver was living in an EU country other than the UK. However, I didn’t consider how they probably came to th UK on an under 31 2 year work visa. They obviously then married which gave them access to a visa. I lived and worked in Sydney in my twenties for a year on the Australian reciprocal under 31 work visa, fantastic experience.

It makes it more disingenuous of RCD to tell people to chill out about losing freedom of movement to 27 other EU countries as they came to the EU as a non EU citizen. They omitted they came on a visa only given by one EU country.

I haven’t looked at it in detail but I am pretty sure for a UK citizen to get a visa and job offer for the US is more difficult than just requiring a degree. Most non EU work visas, the company will have to show that no other citizen can do the job. This is why it is only highly skilled people who can get work visas for non EU countries.

@2bees I didn't say it would be better. I said we'd get through it. It will be different but we will get trade deals etc. It will just take time.

Oh come on therewillvetime, you know full well you framed it as a bit of paperwork and equally you know full well the point isn’t that no UK person lives and works outside the EU but that it is much harder to get a work visa (marrying a non EU citizen reduces some barriers, although the UK have raised them in recent years) when there is no freedom of movement.

Well, it bears consideration. Junker is certainly keen. It’s not as far-fetched as you seem to think.

No, it’s still very, very far fetched.

You missed the bit in the Treaty that requires it to be a ‘unanimous’ decision amongst the Council of Ministers. It’s TEU Article 42(2).

The UK had long said it would veto and other countries would also be very likely to veto - Denmark and Poland for instance.

therewillbetime it’s a valid point though. Working visas for the US, unless you’ve worked for the company for 12+ months, are very difficult to obtain for most people. You almost certainly can’t move there on a whim as you can within the EU currently.

To give you an example, one of the biggest tech companies currently warehouses non-EU workers in London and Munich who have been hired for US roles but for whom they can’t obtain a H1B visa, so they get them to “do time” in Europe until they can move under the L1 rules.