that it has just hit me that this time next year I wont be an EU citizen

[garethsouthgatesmrs]

I know it's yet another brexit thread but it genuinely just hit me that it's actually happening THIS YEAR! I am truly gutted. Would love someone with political knowledge to come on and reassure me that it actually won't be that bad. I have 3 children who have to live with the repercussions.

buble is on jules holland-this has to be a good sign

So you look forward to tearing up ever single international trade agreement the UK currently has (not only with the EU but also with many other countries - Canada, Aus, lots of Africa etc) and assume that all will be great? And who can know what would happen?

The only thing predictable is that the terms the UK gets as 3% of world GDP will be considerably poorer than when part of the EU which accounts for 22% of world GDP.

Frankly if anyone wants any example of the benefits of the EU, look at Ireland. By being part of the EU, the EU has Ireland’s back during the negotiations. And the Irish economy has benefitted enormously from inward investment as global companies base themselves there to take advantage of the single market. And this has accelerated post Brexit

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dublin-is-top-destination-for-uk-firms-after-brexit-dcqzkk6h8

Car manufacturers based themselves in the UK to take advantage of the single market. They will continue to make the current models there, but will Nissan, BMW etc really invest in making future models in the UK post Brexit?? Really?

On the topic of fishing, I also wonder why so much focus is spent on it when it is 0.05% of UK’s GDP. The UK is a services economy now and the City of London losing passporting rights to trade their services across the EU will be a lot more economically damaging.

If that sentence was included in any business pitch, it would be 100% rejected so why should it be good enough for an entire country? Wake up !

Maybe. But the history of predictions made by experts in business and elsewhere is littered with failures. And some of those failures are due in part to the fact even highly skilled people cannot take into consideration is what they don’t know or can’t envisage. That’s just life - things happen that you just don’t expect and can’t foresee.

Why would you take such a punt with an entire national economy?
WA is the least worst Leave option. Tell your MP to support it.

@hilbobaggins
What do you expect to achieve through Brexit?
What tangible changes in Life in the UK?
How will you measure whether it has been a success ?

toga
It's all about emotion and fishing is an emotional subject. Brexit is not about facts and statistics. I think it's about the existential (and irrational) fear to be swallowed up by the continent. Fishing somehow crystalises those feelings.

@quietrebel, thank you. I hear you and think that’s a valid analysis by you.

Absolutely. I have friends who have become citizens of the States and Canada. Involved paperwork, but that is the way it is.

Therewillbetime, utterly disingenuous to portray applying for a work visa for these 2 countries, especially the US, as just a bit of paperwork. US work visas have huge requirements which many will not meet. I don’t mind a bit of debate but when people are so economical with the truth I despair.

I’m not an EU citizen. Has zero impact on my life. Chill out.

I find it hard to imagine that even now, there are people who think this. You might think the downsides are worth the benefits, but to think that leaving the EU will have no impacts on their lives - incredible

I'm also with those praying for a miracle!

@museumofinnocence, racecardriver who wrote that is an Australian natoinal living in an EU country. They claim that they managed to move to the EU no problems. They said they got a 2 year work visa and have no qualifications. They are now in the EU on a spousal visa! Yes, because we can all just grab an Eu national to marry.

I asked them which EU country gave them a two year work visa when they had zero qualifications and no money. I am still waiting for a reply. They say they study and are a sole trader. A quick google showed that many EU countries requirements make it all but impossible to get a resident and permit visa to set up a business.

to add, my last sentence should be many EU countries make it all but impossible to set up a business for non EU residents. The advantages we had as EU citizens to work, study and retire in 27 other EU countries were huge. I think to lose those advantages is sad. However some posters on this thread think as they have no desire to do this they don’t think it’s necessary for fellow UK citizens to have full acesss to work and study abroad.

Just one thing would do really. Anything at all (but don’t say sovereignty, please)

Our armed forces being part of a future EU army?

“Brexit is not about facts and statistics. I think it's about the existential (and irrational) fear to be swallowed up by the continent.”

Yes this is clearly the case because I am still to hear a Brexiteer even attempt to gone up with an economic fact.

It seems that the instinct of some is to leave at ANY cost, even if it means Britain becoming the poor relation of Europe. To leave in the face of all evidence that this is in the worst interests of the nation. I wonder where that instinct comes from?

An elderly relative of ours who lives up North and his cronies admit that they don’t really care about the economy. They see the EU as a German plot to take over Britain and rejoice in Brexit as if nothing has changed since the 40s. Evidence doesn’t matter to themst all. They are simply not interested because they have the “feeling” and they “know.” They want “sovereignty” but can’t articulate what elements of our “sovereignty” were actually missing pre-Brexit. One said something about being at liberty to decide the size and shape of fruit and “we don’t have to use their crash helmets”. I can’t get any further than this in real life. I was hoping MN might explain the advantages of Brexit but yet again, as in other similar threads, not one Brexiteer can come up with anything. Well, nothing more than, “Yay.”

Weren't we turned down when we first attempted to join? I think the French veto'd us.

Ariadne - Thankyou!
I don’t think this was imminent, but if it saves in the defence budget, why not? The real threat is global terrorism and, as European nations, we can unite against this.

not one Brexiteer can come up with anything. Well, nothing more than, “Yay.”

Again, our armed forces being part of a future EU army.

Ah, sorry, updated before I posted!

not one Brexiteer can come up with anything. Well, nothing more than, “Yay.”

Well, there is the whole autonomy thing. There have been instances where the EU has blocked us from extraditing terrorists - wasn't this the case with Abu Hamza at one point? Crown and Supreme court wanted him out but Brussels overruled.

Article here if anyone’s interested. www.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/united-we-fall-a-european-army-is-a-really-bad-idea/

Our armed forces being part of a future EU army?

God, not this one again.

It can only happen when the European Council ‘acting unanimously, so decides’.

The UK has long said it would veto this.

That decision then needs to be ratified by Member States ‘in accordance with their respective constitutional requirements.' For the UK, that would require a referendum, as set out in section 6(2) of the European Union Act 2011.

TheVoiceofRaisin
Yes, you are correct: when DeGaulle was in power in France, he blocked the UK's application at least twice I believe. He strongly felt that the UK would never be fully in and would hold the project back (and at that point both countried were still going through the throes of decolonisation). I'm afraid Brexit sort of validates his point. I honestly don't know whether France would block a Rejoin application should there be one, but I'm pretty sure Brexit will be a huge step backwards in Anglo-french relations.

Well no they won’t. My son will not be able to use the Erasmus scheme for starters.

Surely for all the BeLeaver bluster and silliness, no one on here who is a parent or carer is assuming "everything will be ok" if we go No Deal. Surely people are privately making even the smallest plans to get extra food in, for example.
No one would be that fucking stupid in real life.

I can’t see the hysteria about the European Court of Human Rights though? Surely it’s a safety net for all in society. Why be suspicious of an institution that seeks to protect human rights, of all things? As democratic European nations, our cultural similarities outweigh our differences. We strengthen each other and ongoing, civilised ratification about the nature and direction of what should or shouldn’t constitute human rights and justice is a good thing, surely. It is what unites and distinguished us as as the democratic world. You can’t just shut yourself off and remain static and inward-looking. Being able to appeal to the Euro Court in some, specific cases does not threaten our democracy. It enhances it, in my view.