Grammar schools - which dc to prioritise?

[sylviavana]

We have a dd aged 9 in Year 5 and a ds aged 8 in Year 4.

Dd is extremely clever, and has always been top of her class. Ds is a lovely, kind boy but he’s never been a high achiever at school, even though he tries very hard.

We currently live in a grammar school area. As things stand, dd will be sitting the 11+ next year and is pretty much guaranteed to get into a great girls’ grammar school where I know she’ll thrive. She often gets frustrated at school when the teacher has to slow down to help other children - I think a selective environment would suit her perfectly, and I think she’d love being at a girls’ school, as she frequently gets annoyed by the boys in her class who mess around.

However, ds will almost certainly not get into the local boys’ grammar school, and the non-grammar options in our catchment area are not good. They have a reputation for very bad behaviour and low attendance, don’t get good results, and all have pretty crap facilities and buildings compared to the girls’ grammar that dd will be going to.

I’m so worried that this will cause ds to resent dd - that she has so much better a school experience. I’m also worried that it will crush him to see some of his friends joining dd at the girls’ school or going to the boys’ grammar school, when he has next to no chance of getting in no matter how hard he works.

All this is leading Dh and I to wonder if we need to bite the bullet and move as quickly as possible to a comprehensive area, to be ready to apply for secondary schools for dd this time next year. On the one hand it would be lovely for dd and ds to go to the same school and have a shared school experience, and for ds not to feel ‘less than’ but I worry that I would be robbing dd of an amazing grammar school experience. She has never quite fitted in at primary school, and I think she’d do well in an environment where being clever wasn’t seen as ‘uncool’. On the other hand, I’ve heard that comprehensive schools stream in almost all subjects now, so maybe her classes wouldn’t be that different to a grammar school?

Sorry for rambling! Can I ask what you would do in this situation? Which dc’s education would you prioritise?

There is no guarantee DD will pass - people have "off" days. I would move near a good comprehensive school & send them both there. Where are you? Presumably Kent or Buckinghamshire? If you say which schools they are people may know more about the secondary moderns locally. Mind you, I would still move so that both could go to a decent school.

I’d rather not say specifically where we are but it’s Home Counties.

Dh and I are both pretty flexible in terms of where in the country we can work.

I went to a Girls Grammar school and there was a girl in another class with a twin sister at the local secondary modern.
I was always really curious how the dynamics worked in their family.
It must have worked out though so is obviously possible!

Why on earth do you think that a grammar school would be better for your dd than a good comp? What you think happens to all the really academic children in comp areas?

We had a similar predicament. High achieving ds got into the local grammar but also got scholarships for a couple of high achieving state schools that would have accepted lower achieving ds on a sibling place.
He chose the grammar. I think you always have to go for what is best for the child you are dealing with at the time. You don’t know what local schools will be like in a couple of years and I think my eldest would have resented younger ds if their choice had been based on them. I could also visualise a scenario where younger ds decided they didn’t want to go to the school I’d specifically made sure their elder sibling got into, preferring to go with friends instead.
Ds will take the exam next year and if he wants to try for the grammar I’m fairly sure I could get him up to standard over the summer. He’s in top classes but doesn’t excel like his older sibling but I think any reasonably intelligent child can be coached to pass the test by a reasonably intelligent parent. Whether it’s the best environment for a less natural academic is another matter but the good state schools are just as pushy ime.

Don't screw your poor dd over to save your golden child's feelings. Your dd will resent you in years to come, your not favouring dd by giving her a chance to attend Grammar school you're being practical.

State schools don't give scholarships, do you mean independent schools?

If your children go to different schools they will have different opportunities. Even if your ds got into the boys grammar. There will be better school trips at one school, better sports facilities etc.
You need to start preparing for how you will handle that,
For example the grammar school near me offer trips abroad in each year group. The comps don’t.
It’s not just the education butvtge opportunities that’s are different too.
No I wouldn’t move in your situation or split the family up.
I would write your ds off just yet either.
But I would look around all the schools making your own judgment based on your own opinions and not that of hearsay. And I would start working out how you will handle the differences should they arise.

I'm not at all against grammar schools, but apart from that I agree with OwlBeThere.

A bright child still has a good chance of doing well in a reasonable comp. A weaker student in a poor school will have less of a chance.

It is really tricky and I can totally see why the grammar would be the best fit for your dd. Plus moving to a new area is a huge upheaval. Things do change in schools. Are you totally sure that none of the poor schools are not on the up? And have you checked all the catchment areas? Could there be a school you haven't properly considered? I'm aware I'm clutching at straws here...

I completely understand where you're coming from with this, and it has nothing to do with your ds being a "favoured child".

Personally I would move near a good comprehensive school. If your DD is that bright she will still do well, and you won't be consigning ds to 11+ failure and a crappy secondary modern "comprehensive" school.

Wouldn’t write your ds off that should say

And by the way your situation neatly illustrates one of the many ways in which the grammar school system is unfair (imho).

You need to look properly at the local non grammar, there is presumably a decent cohort of DC that do well!!! With help and e tea curricula that can be your DS. Moving to a new area is a gamble anyway tbh.

If the area you’re moving to has great comprehensives then you won’t necessarily be disadvantage get your dd. Have you looked at the potential alternatives in the new area? You may feel that one may be as good a ‘fit.’ The grammar may be shining in comparison with the non selective locally, which, lets face it, tend to suffer as a consequence of the top slicing that goes on in grammar areas.

Luckily we live in a neighbouring area with excellent comps though there are grammars in neighbouring area. as far as I can see my dd (v high achieving) hasn’t been disadvantaged by being at local comp - far from it.

Me personally - I’d move for both their benefits to an area with v good comprehensive schools.

Duh. Ignore the first “neighbouring area”.

We're in Kent. Lots of my friends have one child at grammar/one not. They all thrive.
All my 4 went to grammar - not sure it was greatest for ds but in Kent anything is possible. Grammar is for the top 25%. Girls'grammar near us is such an amazing school.

If you can move anywhere in the country, why wouldn’t you move somewhere like Hampshire that has some of the best comps in the country? That would suit both children?

It’s a no brainer IME. (Coming from someone who lives in a fully grammar county but can’t move).

Your DD hasn't even gotten in yet! Slow down and wait a bit!

disadvantaging

I really should proofread...

I’d move to an area with good comprehensives. Your DD will be in top sets and do well, your DS’s education won’t suffer for the sake if his DSis. Grammar schools are elitist and divisive, IMO.

In a good comp, ALL kids get the grammar school experience.

Make damned sure it's a good one though. Move North.

To the person who said you are actively disadvantaging your DD by considering a move, this is not true. A decent comp
Which isn't having its brightest and best siphoned off to a grammar will contain plenty of other bright kids. And a bright kid should thrive anywhere.
I speak as the mother of two kids who did just that!

This is such a difficult situation. We moved into a Grammar school area as we knew that dd1 would be highly likely to get into the local super selective grammar school, she did. We knew that ds, who sounds similar to your ds and is also only one school year behind his sister may well not go to the grammar school and would likely be left with the low achieving local secondary modern. We felt that we couldn't hold our daughter back and would 'cross that bridge when it came to it.'

In the end ds scraped a pass into the local boys grammar school, not super selective but a grammar nonetheless, and he is doing really well, thriving actually. We did get him some private tuition at the last minute and I feel that we have given them both a great opportunity. Boys do seem to progress/mature that bit slower than girls. Just my two younger daughters to get through now!

Or move into London borough. Quite a few don’t have grammars. Or if they do, anomalies like superselectives which only top slice top 2%.

Enter your DD for a superselective wherever in the country you consider also has good comps.