Steiner schools, plastic presents and family meltdowns

[WutheringBites]

I’ve namechanged because it’s a bit spottable. Basically, I went to a lot of effort to buy really cute old style fisher price toys for my nieces (who live abroad) and have been told third hand that their parents have hidden them because the children (preschoolers) aren’t allowed to play with anything “plastic”. Apparently it’s against the rules of their nursery.

I’ve now been told, parents are upset because I got them something similar last year.

AIBU that

1. I feel really put out that the children aren’t getting the presents I went to quite a lot of expense and effort to get;
2. That no one bothered to tell me that they weren’t allowed anything except wood?
3. That they didn’t get last years presents either.

And is this rule about only wooden stuff something I should have known? Is it a general Steiner thing?

I’m also really sad that it puts an extra distance between me (as their Aunty) and my DC (as cousins) when we already live in a different country. Due to family pressures it’s really difficult for me to travel to see them; and they don’t come to us at all (but I’ve invited them lots). I feel so upset. I only have one sibling; and no cousins, etc. 😰 I feel I’ve messed up, but didn’t know; and I know I’ll just end up sitting sobbing if I try to phone and talk about it. Arrrgh. 😰

Unescorted They do not teach religion, they practise it on the children. It is a key distinction.

And they also try and stop any criticism on the internet, including successfully getting criticism removed on MN.

Also common in Steiner/Waldorf schools not to tell parents if their kids have been hurt or hurt other kids.
I used to think Steiner schools were basically just schools that were a bit alternative and eco, but in a general hippy style way. But it was when a friend sent her DC to a Steiner school, and then withdrew her, that I found out more and ended up reading quite a bit about it.

And the person who said Steiner is the only type of school where you can do art wrong, is correct. Children are taught exactly what to draw and how and what colours to use. So 20 children drawing an apple in a certain way, with prescribed colours and techique.

Religion did not feature at all taught, practiced or otherwise. It was a non denominational school and proudly so.

I don't believe all Steiner's schools are good, but I also believe that poor examples should be used to say all are poor or the system is poor. The man is a fuckwit but most Steiner schools in my experience acknowledge that and do not condone it. Your friend's child had a shit educational experience. That is not good. However there is value in acknowledging that understanding how an individual learns and keeps leàrning into adulthood so they can add social value throughout life.

I am not saying your direct experience is wrong...just can't be careful in assimilating other people's ideas and spreading them as truth. Just as if someone came on here and said Steiner is all unicorne and light I would be the first to point out the shortcomings.

Steiner schools are not non denominational. I know they say that, but the Steiner philosophy of education is based on the Steiner ideas which is a religion. A Steiner school can not by its nature be non religious.

That is like saying a catholic school can be non religious. Even if there are no RE lessons, the whole school is founded and run on catholic religious principles.

Unescorted Either you are being disingenuous, or you do not understand the basis of Steiner education and need to do more reading on it.

And the religious philosophy affects everything Steiner schools do from what they teach, how they teach it, rules such as not using black crayons, gnomes, their own strange form of dancing, the chanting, wooden toys, wearing natural fibres, how they train teachers, telling kids they have chosen their parents, . It affects everything schools do.

Waldorf Schools are quick to distance themselves from the racist views of Rudolf Steiner. They will always claim they accept all children “regardless of nationality, race, gender or religion”. But this is again to mask the racist cosmology that Steiner developed. Steiner claimed he loved all humans. But he saw humans as evolving through a racial hierarchy. It was the aim of Anthroposophy to help souls develop spiritually and evolve through the races. As such, Steiner’s racism was paternalistic, but nonetheless deeply offensive. Steiner’s methods would encourage teachers to treat children differently depending on their soul’s ‘development’ which might be measured by skin colour – amongst other physical characteristics. Some Schools claim that these racist views have been denounced. But as such views form the foundation of Anthroposophy, you might expect a root and branch change in the religion with soul searching reviews of practice and beliefs, and huge efforts to ensure such beliefs do not linger in schools. There has been no such review and there are no such documents to discuss the impact of the founder’s overt white supremacist views and racism in Steiner education. As the Independent article demonstrates, racists school texts and practices persist to this day.

On virtually all School websites you will find statements suggesting that the School does not ‘promote or teach Anthroposophy’. This is thoroughly misleading. It is like a doctor telling her patients that she does not teach them medicine. Of course not – she practices medicine on them. Waldorf schools practice Anthroposophy on the children. Everything in the school is Anthroposophical, from the class and school structure, the curriculum and lesson plans, the festivals, the occult dancing known as eurythmy, the style of art work, the crafts, the myths and cryptohistory and the pseudoscience. The aim of Steiner School is to steep the children in the ideas, myths, practices and rhythms of Anthroposophy – and without them knowing. The archangels and earth spirits, such as gnomes, become routine parts of daily education. The prayers and spiritual cosmology become normalised without explicit religious instruction. The schools live Anthroposophy. The attitudes and worldview are designed to inculcate a predisposition to Anthroposophy so that young adults will go on to take part in Steiner communities, such as Camphill, biodynamics or the many businesses with Anthroposophical roots.

Your bro &sil sound like a right pair of insufferable twats 😒
Most of my generation were brought up on those toys to no ill effect and as for face less dolls 😱 reminds me of an episode of The Twilight Zone, where people's mouths disappeared. Give me a tiny tears any day.

I spent a couple of years in a Steiner school as a child and this thread is freaking me out totally

I had no idea about the background but looking back some of the stuff really was weird as fuck

You might like this thread
www.mothering.com/forum/12-personal-growth/683104-life-after-waldorf-support-group-3.html

Unescorted, I don’t know which Steiner school you went to or when, but three of my cousins went to East Grinstead Waldorf school in the 80s/90s. Two of them are functionally illiterate, and the boy only isn’t because he went back to community college later to take his GCSEs (he just didn’t take any national exams first time around, I’m not sure why not). Had a job created for him in his dad’s firm because it was that or min wage.

Since motherhood is apparently the zenith of womanly achievement under the Steiner Volkisch system, the two girls just got knocked up in their late teens and early 20s respectively, and claimed benefits. Never worked. No SEN, just really poor teaching.

Their parents are both high-earning professionals. Given the thousands of pounds they spent on school fees over the years, I would not be very pleased in their place that the outcome was one son with a couple of GCSEs, and two illiterate SAHMs. This is not a criticism of the cousins, they are lovely people. But they themselves regularly complain to us that they could have gone to any inner city comprehensive and had better educational outcomes. The son in particular is very resentful that they sent him there.

I went to a Steiner school before transferring the main stream system as a child.
The wooden toys thing is part of the Steiner ethos but it's not enforced onto parents to follow it through at home in any meaningful way. You family has obviously chosen to take this particular bit seriously.

Steiner schools in general are pretty horrific, the entire philosophy underpinning all spiritual and religious notions states that black people are less evolved than white people, for example. Although the student body when I was there certainly wasn't all white children.
It is extremely rigid, painting must be done in a specific correct way, readkng doesn't start until 8/9 resulting in a large number still not being fluent readers at 11. Children sit public exams a year late and generally are o my offered a narrow range of subjects. Formal education in subjects like science doesn't begin until 14 and before this age children are taught English maths and general studies for all 7 post nursery years by the same teacher. Often these teachers are completely unqualified to teach eg maths and standards are poor. Children get very behind national curriculum standards making it harder to transfer to normal schools. High numbers of SEN children are left without any support. Bullying is not dealt with by staff on the basis that weaker children are picked on and they deserve it.
I was assaulted by children and by parents before I left.

And to top it all off the one I went to has recently been shut down for massive lapses in safeguarding, extremely poor teaching, and historic abuse claims etc. I believe they are now charging £5k pa for an unlicensed school.

are not offered

Excuse my typos

This thread is fascinating! I had no idea

Yup. The main reason we decided against sending my children to Steiner. Just strange!

Our neighbours had a 6 year old Steiner school child (nc) and she would spend all day, every day over at my house playing with my dd5's 'normal' toys.

It caused no end of trouble because nc wanted to play with dd's toys by herself and would make my dd cry so she would go away.

Over time, nc became very jealous of my dd and started trying to manipulate me to get her in trouble. It was such a weird situation to be in. I was SOOOOOOOO glad when they moved!

Unescorted, you keep on misreading posts.

The point of my criticism is not that the schools are not 'good' across the board (though if children do well in them maybe you would ascribe that to individual children's intelligence?) I could add to what I have said about Steiner schools that maybe children succeed in them despite and not because of them...

I am saying that academic progress or attainment or development of intellect is not the central aim of any Steiner school, with no exceptions, and that parents are never told this. I am saying the schools misrepresent what they are to prospective families. I am saying that families are sucked into something that might be alien to their belief systems and their educational background, with religion informing every single detail of the school and practiced on the children, as abacucat states so articulately.

I don't have children & have always been told by friends that it doesn't matter what I give their children as at the moment, they are more interested in the packaging than the present!

Where is the family meltdown part?

It's sounds like they didn't even complain about the toys.

Wtf is dogma about sitting a GCSE in RE? Surely that has loads of debate and critical thinking in it?

silverbirch it says in the OP that the parents are upset about the gift

@Hohocabbage it said she heard they are upset. She doesn't know how upset, or really even if it's true at all. For all we know her brother said something low key in passing to their mother like 'I wish sis would get on board with the Steiner stuff. We had to donate those beautiful toys and I feel bad she wasted her time and money.' Or whatever.

It's not like they are screaming down the phone at her saying how terrible she is.

This doesn't meet my definition of a 'meltdown.'

@WutheringBites OP should call them and find out. She's reading into things that may not be so.

FWIW I think the Steiner stuff is pretentious and silly. I nannied for a Steiner family 15 years ago and none of them became concert pianists or brilliant surgeons or anything. They grew up, earned their own money, bought video games and laugh at their parents for making them play with pinecones instead of transformers. They are very average.

But I am also of the view that the parents call the shots and unless something abusive is happening then extended family should get on board and be supportive. @WutheringBites buy them wooden pencils or something next year and call it a day. There are pretentious overpriced websites that will tell you what is ok according to their world view.

I don't really understand your original post. You knew that they couldn't have plastic toys, so you bought them plastic Fisher Price toys. Is that right?

Sorry! Ignore that dim post. Just re-read.