To wonder if middle class children appear more ‘scruffy’

[Workingclass]

Went to a Childs party today for an old school friends DD (they are incredibly middle class) and her group of mum friends (who are equally as middle class)

I admit I don’t usually socialise in many middle class circles but I couldn’t help but notice that all of the children looked... scruffy, for want of a better word.

None of them had brushed their hair, they were all in mismatched clothes with muck on their faces. Didn’t look bathed..

I feel awful saying it, but I notice this also with the MC children at the DC school, has anyone else noticed it? I’m just curious as to why this seems to be a thing? Does my dds plaits and dresses ‘out’ her as having a working class family?

Is it more of a privilege thing? We don’t have much money so am weary of being judged as lazy by not doing her hair, I also make an effort to dress her nicely so she doesn’t look like ‘the poor kid’ is it that if your middle class you don’t have that fear?

Absolutely happy to be told IABU and judgemental but I am genuinely curious on the subject.

I think yes also. crazy !

Because it is inherent and the indicators will be there- however I don’t think it should be seen in a bad way as that is implying middle class is better.

That is true of me, heron. I had to pack it in before it drove me to insanity (as a single mother). Great aunt did very well in the profession though.

I think that's actually bollocks. You can have a working class background and middle class status.

No- you can have the trappings of a stereotypical middle class life and be respected professionally, but you are still inherently working class. I don’t see what the issue is with this.

blanche sorry to hear that. It is stark at the moment how the privileged have regained or consolidated in lots of areas which had opened up a bit.

Flossie what is your definition of social mobility then?

It is Heron. I'm much happier now.

My definition of social mobility is the ability to access jobs and opportunities which traditionally you may not have. Wider social networks etc. Definitely not changing your social class. You don’t need to be middle class to be a barrister for example (although admittedly easier if you have the financial resources behind you), and the social mobility would be being able to enter this field.

Social class purely by birth hasn't been used for a long time.

Kate Middleton for example has obviously moved into the royal family and as such is part of the aristocracy, but she will always herself be middle class.

Sockwomble- it is the standard definition of class. I think this whole moving between classes thing has come about due to the stigma of being working class. And I really am not sure why- I think that’s where the real snobbery lies.

Flossie that isn't actually what it means though. To you, it does but it actually doesn't. It really is a thing. I've never come across anyone who denies it before to the extent of changing the definition! Sorry to keep on about it, I've found it all intriguing.

I've never come across people in real life who are so desperate to put people into tightly defined little pigeon holes.

I have heard of social mobility but I think it is naive to believe you can actually change your social class and be truly accepted as something else. And like I said repeatedly- I don’t see why you would want to.

Why can't you 'truly accept' other people?

I myself am fairly typically middle class- prep school then grammar, then Russell group traditional subject, post grad, and now in very senior management role. I work in a very deprived area and my staff team are pretty much all working class- even though I dress like them, get on great, socialise, they still won’t and don’t see me as the same social class as them and often joke about me being posh. That’s just the way it is- no one is better than anyone else- just a fluke of birth that I was born to a different type of home than the people I work with. And that’s totally ok. I can’t decide that I would like to now be working class because my colleagues all are.

If you can decide to go up then surely you can decide to go down??

I sort of agree that some people stay "true" to their working class roots while having some of the trappings of a middle class lifestyle, and that's no bad thing. I totally disagree that no one ever attains a different social class within their lifetime. I mentioned my df earlier. He wasn't wearing a mask -he genuinely enjoyed stereotypically middle class things like fine wine and classical music - but they weren't things he'd been brought up with. In fact it caused a bit of a rift with his own df - and it is this inability of classes to properly blend that is the issue with the class system.

Well not really flossie because it's harder to lose certain trappings then it is to gain them.

Yes- but how does liking stereotypical middle class things make you that class? Why not just be who you are and do what you like? I love chips (favourite food), tacky rave music and going to tacky clubs just because I find it fun, and also hummus and Italian breads and a bit of classical music. They are just things that don’t really define me as a whole.

Let's say someone is from born and raised outside the UK in a very wealthy family - private schools, expensive holidays, luxurious cars, well educated and with a classic degree. This person comes to the UK and finds a job in her/his field.

They still have an accent;
No posh double barrelled surname;

So what category this person falls into? I am honestly curious.

Middle class.

I am not from the uk but was educated here (save for a year or two). My parents (immigrants - white - and unfortunately I think that is relevant and English first language) had all the trappings of upper middle class here save for money. They never became truly middle class here and were always simply seen as posh and foreign. I have always been labelled middle class and posh. I do think the generational thing mentioned by Flossie above has some force.

You are only upper class if you are from the aristocracy