To wonder if middle class children appear more ‘scruffy’

[Workingclass]

Went to a Childs party today for an old school friends DD (they are incredibly middle class) and her group of mum friends (who are equally as middle class)

I admit I don’t usually socialise in many middle class circles but I couldn’t help but notice that all of the children looked... scruffy, for want of a better word.

None of them had brushed their hair, they were all in mismatched clothes with muck on their faces. Didn’t look bathed..

I feel awful saying it, but I notice this also with the MC children at the DC school, has anyone else noticed it? I’m just curious as to why this seems to be a thing? Does my dds plaits and dresses ‘out’ her as having a working class family?

Is it more of a privilege thing? We don’t have much money so am weary of being judged as lazy by not doing her hair, I also make an effort to dress her nicely so she doesn’t look like ‘the poor kid’ is it that if your middle class you don’t have that fear?

Absolutely happy to be told IABU and judgemental but I am genuinely curious on the subject.

Fair enough. I'm obviously out of touch with the correct terminology. Point is that they exist and acknowledging that is important to resolving it.

Absolutely! I also think (and appreciate that this is controversial), that many of those who think they are middle class, think so as they do not identify with the ‘underclass’ and therefore they themselves must be middle class and not working class- because they own their own homes/ work/ go on holiday etc.

I think it's prejudiced and disrespectful to refer to it as an entity
Better to pretend a group doesn't exist then?
My town is a working class town with some suburban areas. There are parts of town that are blighted by poor educational outcomes, where it's the norm to have few aspirations, where as a teacher inwas regularly told I was expecting too much of their children because 'they don't even need their GCSEs' & was also blamed for causing a child to assault me (because i should have allowed them to verbally abuse others and threaten violence to other childreb who wanted to learn). Where working at school is optional because 'I did alright without GCSEs'. There's an area where more people sat at bus stops are smoking in sports wear and crime rates are higher.
It doesn't mean everyone in that area is a bad person, far from it. There are some genuine working class people in that area, but there's also a fair amount of chavs and some places where if you parked your car it could end up stacked on bricks by the end of the evening.

There's no use pretending there isn't a section of society for whom life is extremely difficult, who are denied access to work and opportunity.

Agreed. I tend to refer to them, if needed, as living below the poverty line. I would not classify them as

those who choose to be loud, anti-social, sit around Maccies all morning in fluffy tracksuit and fluffy boots as opposed to good old fashioned working class people who are nice, polite & have a work ethic as some on this thread have.

People living below the poverty line are individuals with a variety of backgrounds and cultures. They are not 'underclass'.

Elf the 'working classes' (plural) has been in use since Victorian times to describe the different nuances/types of employment/social situations. I don't think working class is thought of as one homogeneous mass. It's just a way of generalising: WC/MC/UP

Maisy pops- the group you refer too are not chavs- they are just people who are socially and financially excluded for a wide variety of reasons.

My grandparents lived below the poverty line but they weren't chavs.

There is a massive difference between being poor and being a chav.

Many families I've worked with have been poor and there was nothing chavvy about them. They had to choose between feeding the children or having electric/gas. But they weren't chavvy.

Being poor doesn't mean you sit around smoking 40 a day or being antisocial. Being poor doesn't prevent you having manners.

There is a massive difference between being poor and being a chav. Usually it's only middle class people who want to appear enlightened on MN who claim otherwise.

I think it is. Great pains are taken to know the particular flavour of middle class, look at this thread. Working class just rolls off the tongue as easily as 'other' or 'poor'.

Another one is look at the cars..
Cars if you have money are transportation, will be a mess inside, full of doggie and sports kit..
New clean car. Oh how that marks you as trying too hard.

That's exactly my point maisypops. Not all those below the poverty line behave the same way and have the same set of circumstances. Therefore I agree with the premise that There's no use pretending there isn't a section of society for whom life is extremely difficult, who are denied access to work and opportunity. But disagree that these people form an underclass. I don't think the underclass label has any use whatsoever.

Absolutely poor doesn't mean chav. There's a family near me that I would describe as chavs. They seem to do ok- they deal in second hand cars and drugs. They sit out front drinking and smoking while their small children (who are sweet actually) bounce on their trampoline.
When I was poor I couldn't afford to drink and I certainly couldn't afford a trampoline, but I wasn't a chav.
Some people also fall into extreme chaos and poverty due to abuse or addiction, and those things do tend to run in families, as in through the generations, but that's not the same as just being working class, obviously.

People often mistakenly equate social class and financial situation. They have nothing to do with each other.

Class is all about taste.

I find a few artfully inserted twigs and leaves inserted into hair and clothing give the right message along with a swipe of mud down the cheek 😁

People often mistakenly equate social class and financial situation. They have nothing to do with each other.

They have lots to do with each other. It’s not a perfect 1:1 and there are plenty of exceptions in both directions but to say they have nothing to do with each other is obviously not correct.

I am not sure how finances equate with class?? You can be very rich but still working class and middle class but poor! Think of eccentric artist types or PhD students/ writers etc

You can be very rich but still working class and middle class but poor!

Hence "there are plenty of exceptions in both directions".

But it should be quite obvious that in general, the working classes have less money than the middle classes.

People often mistakenly equate social class and financial situation. They have nothing to do with each other.

How would you define middle class then?

Class is all about taste.

See, I disagree with that. If class is purely about what you do in your free time, what clothes and food you like et cetera, what is a middle class area, as referred to on MN? A place where all residents like going to the theatre etc? People from lots of financial backgrounds like going to the theatre, I know many working class people who do. So presumably, your middle class area would have lots of different types of housing, from council flats all the way to six bedroomed detached mansions and would somehow only attract like-minded people? See also middle class schools. Or is that actually how it works? Do you presume that all people who enjoy or might grow to enjoy middle class pursuits have the means and opportunity to get into middle class careers that would enable them to access said pursuits?

Or is there no such thing as a middle class area or school? In which case what do you use the term for?

I am not so sure now a days. The working classes I know are all doing well- lots of tradesmen with own business’s, people working in sales, train drivers on more than 50k. Don’t think there is the same discrepancy as historically.

Yes, I have noticed that too. Middle class children are scruffy and with the snots hanging down to their knees (sorry, if TMI), you will never see them in plaits or clothes with characters, but they are in general better behaved and have respect for people and animals.

Fuck it, soap and water costs pennies, if keeping my house and child clean marks me out as working class, then pass me the net curtains

LeeBird- I can only assume you are being facetious.

All sorts of factors influence your sense of style. My circle tends to be the woodcraft folk/forest school end of middle class, so flash cars and conspicuous consumption is not generally aspired to, whereas in the city my bosses would come to work in Aston Martins and go skiing every holiday. They were just as solidly middle class though with their expensive education and accents. But their politics were generally different and I bet their homes would look very different.

They do and I’ve also noticed their houses seem to be mismatched and a bit of a mess to .. food for thought

Interesting thread - I'm not really sure if I'm middle class or not (but probably?!). DH and I both work in skilled / technical jobs - so I guess that means middle class, I suppose we're both "professionals" (although I rarely feel it)? It's not something I ever really think about TBH.

My DC (2.5) is always clean, but sometimes probably scruffy-looking (particularly if DH has chosen clothes, he has no sense of what goes well together) - I do tend to favour soft easy clothes like joggers and vests. We don't have specific "nursery clothes" but do have some best bits that I wouldn't use for going to childcare. DC seems to get grubby at the drop of a hat and I don't mind it really as I suppose I would rather DC is free to have fun, they're always cleaned up at the end of the day or when they come in from outside. My DC has wild, curly hair (needs a cut but I know it will be a nightmare so I keep just trimming the fringe every so often). I mostly buy clothes from supermarkets, charity shops (when I have time to go searching) and John Lewis sale. I think Frugi/Boden etc. are overpriced. but we do have a few bits that were gifts.

I do worry about people judging me for having a scruffy child, but I worry about being judged for most things relating to parenting TBH.