To wonder if middle class children appear more ‘scruffy’

[Workingclass]

Went to a Childs party today for an old school friends DD (they are incredibly middle class) and her group of mum friends (who are equally as middle class)

I admit I don’t usually socialise in many middle class circles but I couldn’t help but notice that all of the children looked... scruffy, for want of a better word.

None of them had brushed their hair, they were all in mismatched clothes with muck on their faces. Didn’t look bathed..

I feel awful saying it, but I notice this also with the MC children at the DC school, has anyone else noticed it? I’m just curious as to why this seems to be a thing? Does my dds plaits and dresses ‘out’ her as having a working class family?

Is it more of a privilege thing? We don’t have much money so am weary of being judged as lazy by not doing her hair, I also make an effort to dress her nicely so she doesn’t look like ‘the poor kid’ is it that if your middle class you don’t have that fear?

Absolutely happy to be told IABU and judgemental but I am genuinely curious on the subject.

Or, to drive the other way, a company exec earning six figures moves in to a local £1,00,000+ house with his equally high-earning wife. He prefers the cinema to the theatre, never goes anywhere near a museum and eats at McDonald's every weekend. You meet him at a birthday party for one of the kids at your top private school, which his eight children attend. He likes none of the things the other parents there like and enjoys hobbies that you think of as traditionally working class. He dresses his children immaculately. Do you think of him as working class?

I’ve been rich and i’ve been poor. I’ve been employed, unemployed and self employed. I’ve always been middle class.

Flossie that depends on whether you believe in meritocracy or social mobility. All those people you just mentioned, business owners ect would be categorised by most as middle class having climbed a rung or two.
I think the whole class system in this country is rubbish. I prefer it when there isn't one, like where I originally come from (thanks to one parent being from there and growing up there). That's not to say there are no social issues, there are some problems with some people being alienated, but in general there is no stereotyping, stigma or shame due to being perceived as being part of one class or the other and everyone is politically engaged, from the poorest to the richest.

Yes- I have met fathers just like him at my daughters private school and stick out as working class done good. Flashy big Range Rover etc and designer clothes head to toe. Wife also never quite fits despite the clothes as accent and lack of education gives it away. I appreciate this seems very very snobby but that’s the reality.

This is making me think of all the clients I have represented (criminal barrister). Without exception I have liked or if not liked than at least understood my clients who society would call working class and/or in the terminology of this thread ‘the underclass’ - prefer ‘fallen outside of safety nets’ or ‘significantly disadvantaged’. Withiut exception I have found my middle class clients ( usually driving offences or fraud) an absolute pain in the * with unbelievable sense of entitlement and outrage that they have been caught up in the system they don’t see as applying to them.
Hmmm

flossietoot I’m sure they think the world of you too! I have always said that I wouldn’t want to be middle class. I’m working class and if I can’t be aristocracy then I’ll stay where I am thanks. My kids are immaculate as is my home. I won’t talk money as it’s vulgar.

This has been the best read in a long time. I find people's attitudes to the class system endlessly fascinating.

I will point out though after thinking hard that in all the years I've known my dh, I've never seen him brush his hair.

I don't have small children anymore, however when you look at teenage children in our mainly middle class area, you can definitely tell who's from what class by how they present themselves.

The social climbers here also stick out like a sore thumb too. They just try too hard to appear middle class.

Personally I couldn't care a less because I'm quite unsociable We shop at Aldi, buy the vast majority of clothes second hand, have a husband who appears to shop exclusively at Sainsburys for his clothes and even then it's not that frequent. And my son has longer hair that he never brushes either, my dd when younger actually had feral hair, it never looked remotely kempt.

I was simply responding to a direct post about whether this type of person would be seen as middle class, and at the school my daughters attended, they wouldn’t have. I personally couldn’t care less, but you don’t suddenly become middle class because you are rich.

And that’s not to say they would be in anyway excluded- they just wouldn’t be seen as middle class.

Actually, flossie, you do. If we're talking 'rich rich' like I said in my previous post to you, it's because of social mobility. To refute that is just an elitist way to try and keep people 'in their place' and beneath you.

Not sure what you mean? I mean ‘rich rich’ but still not middle class. Just rich from a non middle class back ground.

That is how famous people, like musicians and sportspeople have climbed to the (almost) very top. Many appear to working class and/or 'chavvy' and speak with regional accents but they are not in the top-earning portion of the country and are therefore arguably new 'upper class' due to prestige, not birth.

The unfortunate thing in this country is that so many towns have the same high streets and chain stores and they’re all dross. People are forced to buy what is basically disposable clothing for their kids, ie. polyester or stuff that’s only designed to last a couple of washes. Sometimes it can be hard to find a top that doesn’t have some naff slogan or children’s tv character on it - to apoeal to “pester power” and detract from the fact is 90% nylon. There is also this hairstyle referred to as the “Croydon face lift” which is quite noticeable in some areas - ie. hair scraped back within an inch of its life and, in the case of younger girls, adorned with one of those garish tat hair bows or similar. The full on head-to-toe Adidas / other sports brand look was never a great one either imo, and it’s a uniquely British thing. Hygiene is not a class thing, but you can see why some people, MC or not, tend to give up on trying to buy pristeen clothes for their DC, because so much of what is in the high street is cheap tat made in sweatshops, no doubt.

Festivenut they'd probably be referred to as Nouveau riche and people with lower incomes would look down on them with a certain degree of scorn. It's the whole thing of 'not being able to buy class'.

See footballers and their wives.

Flossie I'm not sure why you don't understand but like I've said a few times not, because of class mobility, they are middle class. Like all the people you mentioned before. It might be distasteful for you to think that, but they are no longer WC, but MC (with a WC background).

I think education and interests do play a part. My dad was definitely working class growing up but he was grammar school and Oxbridge educated. By the end of his life he loved opera, classic literature, holidays in Provence etc. I think you'd be hard pushed to describe him as working class

Now in* not not in

Blanche- I would see the people you describe as just being very rich! I would never describe Liam Gallagher or Cheryl Cole as upper class.

My kids are messy and so is my house - my car is ancient. I'm not bothered if people judge, why would l be? I don't feel l have to prove anything to a bunch of strangers.
It is definitely a class thing. I'm as MC as they come! I'm not sniffy about different values though, it would be seriously dull if everyone was the same.

I agree to an extent, Flossie but if you believe in the class system as it stands then you would have to acknowledge meritocracy and social mobility (either up or down).
Like I said before, I think it's all rubbish anyway.

Sorry Blanche- disagree. Still working class, and not sure why that is a problem- why do they need to be ‘middle class’??? They may now be in a position to pay for a better education for their kids than they themselves had, but they don’t now become themselves middle class, and those that are traditional middle classes DO pick up on the differences.

Yes I think it's a massive shame that some of the threads come across as very sneery (in both directions). I find the class system interesting and am passionate about social mobility but I don't necessarily see middle class values as "better". Family, community, respect etc are all string working class values and good ones imo.

I know a lot of adults on the autistic spectrum who earn insane amounts of money working in internet security.

None of them wear suits (at least not unless a very special occasion) many wear clothes with holes in and, if you saw them in the street you might imagine that they were struggling financially.

A couple of them have very set ideas about clothes and have wardrobes with multiple identical items that they like or a wardrobe full of clothes in one colour, but most care more about things other than how they look.

The demand for highly skilled professionals in the field and the understanding that many are on the spectrum and are uncomfortable in suits means that they can and do wear whatever they like.

I also understand that salespeople in luxury car showrooms and other luxury shops understand that just because someone enters the shop in scruffy clothes it does not mean that they cannot afford to buy a car or other item.

I have not read the entire thread so apologies if I am repeating something already posted.

I am avoiding the "class" issue as it is very complex and am not claiming to offer "the answer" here. Just offering an opinion on the way that the advent of the internet and the rise of the geeks has changed expectations of clothing and personal grooming.

Because Flossie that's just the way it is. Social mobility exists. Personally I don't identify with it either but I can't deny that as long as there is a class system, people can be 'social climbers' and likewise go down the rungs. Case in point: look at all the celebrities who attend royal weddings. Granted, some of them were already 'up there' like James Blunt and Ellie Goulding (possibly?), certain fashion designers...the others have 'earned' their way there by means of fame and prestige. They've gone from being working class to mixing in royal circles.

I also understand that salespeople in luxury car showrooms and other luxury shops understand that just because someone enters the shop in scruffy clothes it does not mean that they cannot afford to buy a car or other item.

Interesting - I was born working class - and it was drummed into me that I had to dress smart to go shopping or into a bank as the service was then noticeable better.

It wasn’t wrong either few occasions we entered somewhere unexpected not in best and got awful service only to go back dressed up and have excellent service.

Though I don't disagree about scruffy clothes meaning nothing regarding affordability - as I've noticed what the OP has as well.