To wonder if middle class children appear more ‘scruffy’

[Workingclass]

Went to a Childs party today for an old school friends DD (they are incredibly middle class) and her group of mum friends (who are equally as middle class)

I admit I don’t usually socialise in many middle class circles but I couldn’t help but notice that all of the children looked... scruffy, for want of a better word.

None of them had brushed their hair, they were all in mismatched clothes with muck on their faces. Didn’t look bathed..

I feel awful saying it, but I notice this also with the MC children at the DC school, has anyone else noticed it? I’m just curious as to why this seems to be a thing? Does my dds plaits and dresses ‘out’ her as having a working class family?

Is it more of a privilege thing? We don’t have much money so am weary of being judged as lazy by not doing her hair, I also make an effort to dress her nicely so she doesn’t look like ‘the poor kid’ is it that if your middle class you don’t have that fear?

Absolutely happy to be told IABU and judgemental but I am genuinely curious on the subject.

Yes- but they are still not truely seen as middle class- they are accepted as they are rich and/ or a celebrity. They have perhaps widened their social circle, but their background will always define them to some extent. It’s like ‘Pygmalion’- eventually the mask slipped.

Yes people can have one background but have changed to another. I'm not sure whether you truly can't get your head around it as it's a straightforward concept or whether you're just being obtuse, a bit snobby and prefer to 'other' people.

'The mask slipping' says it all.

Geeks have their own class system in a way. The social expectations that they are under are different to traditional mc / wc classification. However the level of conformity within the geek community is high. There are certain cultural things that are deemed of value to community but it is 'exclusive' in a sense and if you don't understand certain reference points or share those values you might not be as 'accepted'.

I am not being deliberately obtuse at all. My opinion is your social class is inherent too you and developed in childhood through to young adulthood. It is who you are and it actually doesn’t matter what class you are. I don’t believe being middle class is better than working class. I don’t believe being working class means you are less well off by any means. I therefore do not understand why there would be a need to ‘move up’ or ‘change’ social class! I know for example I would never be seen as upper middle class or upper class and I actually don’t care. I know plenty of successful working class people who are happy and would find the idea of being middle class ridiculous and pretentious.

You can’t sustain pretending to be something you inherently not is what I meant by the mask slipping. And again- why would you want to!!

Social mobility is where our country really fails and it means people find it hard to accept people might move class within their lifetime. I agree it's not just about money. Alan Sugar is a Lord but proud of his working class roots and for all I know still has the same circle and interests. O think it's mostly about education/professional status. When I was a kid I had a childminder who was working class and a single parent. Of her four children one is a surgeon, one is a teacher, one is a nurse and one is a careworker. I stayed friends with all of them and they do have different lifestyles.

Not at all hamster. You totally misunderstood. I have no concept of what job my DC will end up in. I am happy with my office job and would be happy for them to follow suit. But for now I want to expand their minds and their horizons and not worry about whether they will suddenly be called in for an impromptu interview and not know how to dress themselves.

Oh you misunderstood flossie. Social mobility isn't about pretending to be something you are not.

I am also not particularly offended. But every time I say i am not actually that bothered if my gorgeous cherubs (and yes they are gorgeous cherubs) are scruffy then I am told I am being defensive and superior.

I know social mobility isn’t about pretending. My point is you can move in whatever circles you like, and work in what ever field you like, but you can’t change social class. Within a social group there will always be signifiers of your back ground.

Is social mobility harder now than it used to be? My grandparents were definitely working class - East End Londoners in tiny houses. My great-grandfather was a factory worker. My grandfather got a managerial-type office job and they were housed in a council house outside London, but a very nice one, that changes hands for quite a lot of money these days. My DGM definitely put a lot of care into her and her DC's appearance.

My DM married my DF who had a middle-class background and we were definitely brought up as lower MC, which I would still describe myself as now. Neither of my parents were degree educated, but they were eating avocados before they became mainstream so we must have been middle-class . Although my DM's sister married a factory worker and I would say stayed "working class". Interesting to think about.

festivenut - yes I would. Class isn’t causatively linked to wealth in this country. There is often a correlation.

Yes- it probably is. In the past people used to say grammar schools were a good way out of working class areas but I don’t think that’s the case now as kids from less well off back grounds can’t afford the tutors etc. Plus society is changing and perhaps less aspiration.

I think it's harder as some posters indicate that it doesn't exist 🤷‍♀️

@hamstersaremyfriends

Do you not see the irony in your post? Telling us all how arrogant we are?

Hang on Flossie, you just said that one can't change social class. Then you've replied to a comment about social mobility

You can’t change social class but you can change the circle in which you mix.

Social mobility is currently at its lowest level in over a generation

This is def a thing op. Beautifully coordinated next catalogue kids are looked down on with an inverted snobbery all the time at a toddler group I run. I get the gist the nct crowd think little bows in hair, party dresses etc are a bit common.

I went to a grammar- the kids there from working class back grounds were still working class. They just had the option to go on to professional jobs, and by extension their children would be middle class. But they themselves were not.

I am a barrister. There was a brief flurry of social mobility into the profession in late 70s to mid eighties. Also brief flurry of increased ability for women and women with children to carve out a career at the Bar. Since then things have contracted badly again. A lot of women at the bar struggle to balance family life. Single mums find it almost impossible. Racial mobility into the profession has slowed and in some demographics almost halted.

So a working class child who grows up to become a doctor is still working class?

Yes. But their children won’t be.