To be angry & upset that DH didn’t want me to go to hospital?

[ThisWayDown]

I’m in South Africa for a holiday with DH and DC. No family here but a friend. Today at the beach the waves were strong. I got knocked over by one and my knee gave way with a loud snap. I tore my anterior cruciatr ligament (ACL) 15 years ago when someone skied into me and had a reconstruction - it tore again some years later and I needed another. The way the knee sounded and hurt and not being able to stand on it made me really worry that I’d torn my ACL again.

DH helped me stand up and hobble over to our towels on the shore. He then said “we’re not going to A&E”. He was being slightly lighthearted but also totally serious. He said that’s because we went to A&E our last holiday due to a hand fracture I turned out to have.

We took the kids to get some dinner before heading back to our rented flat. As we went home on the bus, my knee became increasingly painful and in my view was swollen. DH said “oh shit” when I told him I was in pain and seemed angry. He said he was upset that I may have injured myself. He was caring but when I said I wanted to go to A&E he seemed to shut down, which he often does. He thought it was in my “best interests” not to but to get back to the apartment and rest and decide tomorrow, as it was “highly likely” that I wouldn’t need treatment and that the hospital wouldn’t be able to do anything. And the kids needed to get home. He thought I was being unreasonable going.

He’s not a doctor. I was angry that he’d - yet again - put what he thought should happen above what I did. He thought I should wait to the morning. When we got off the bus I told him to take the children home and I would call my friend to take me there. She didn’t answer. I said I’d take a cab. He said he wasn’t leaving me but he didn’t want to take the children to the hospital as that wasn’t in their best interests, so it was “an impossible situation”. He wanted me not to go. I said I was in considerable pain and I strongly suspected it was torn, and that I couldn’t believe he wanted to override that. We had a huge argument at the bus stop, in front of our kids They wanted to come to the hospital. Eventually we all went in a cab.

The triage nurse sent me to wait to see a doctor. My family stayed with me for a while but I sent them home so the kids could go to bed. My friend eventually called but had been drinking so couldn’t drive over to see me.

My DH said again while here innA&E that he hadn’t wanted to go to A&E as we went on the last holiday. I said I didn’t realise there was a quota, regardless of whether someone needed treatment or not I am so upset that he wanted me to delay hospital treatment to the next morning or, better yet, not seek any. I am so livid and heartbroken by his irrationality, callousness and rigidity (again) that I put my friend and not him as my emergency contact and told DH I’d let the kids know how I was getting on but not him.

I strongly suspect he is on the autistic - one of our children is - and so does our ASD child’s psychologist and the couples therapisf we used to see. He agrees that he has traits sometimes but when pressed will deny he has it and refuse to seek a diagnosis or accept that some of his thinking and actions are, er, different and frankly come across as selfish and uncaring. He says he was worried about me, just felt it was much better for me if I slept on it and decided on A&E in the morning. I said that wasn’t his decision to make.

We’ve had a lovely holiday so far but I am so down with him not respecting my opinion and thinking it’s aporopriate to think he knows best. I’ve been waiting for hours to see a doctor and, apart from my children who have been so sweet and caring, I feel utterly alone. AIBU to think he’s BU?

For gods sake to those people who don't have a clue about Aspergers, try reading, and understanding at least a bit can't you

@jack65

I really hope that wasn’t aimed at me given I am autistic (Asperger’s)

Your original comment - highlighted in my previous post - underlined your ignorance about the autistic spectrum.

@soaringswallow you missed my point. The point is the husband has not been diagnosed as autistic but many peopl have happily used that assumption to blame his behaviour on a condition they are not professionally qualified to understand.

Almost every week on MN there is a thread where someone says my DH did this and there is always someone asking if he is autistic.

The misunderstanding of autism (eg not recognising differences between PDA and Asperger’s, or that there are common co-morbitiies that may cause unpleasant personality features - it is not AS itself) is extremely unhelpful and damaging to autistic people or people - especially women - who then assume they can’t be autistic because they don’t recognise the description.

But threads like this - and the hideous one in relationships (especially the first where dozens of comments had to be deleted due to their ableist content) are deeply hurtful.

It is possible to be autistic and nice (I think) but not many people realise that

Morning OP. How do you feel? How much longer do you have, roughly on holiday?

OP, I've sent you a PM.

Autistichedgehog Ah I didn't realise you have the monopoly on autism and that your experience is the only valid one

Jesus Jack65 how on earth did you extract that from my post? Given what you said about people needing to educate themselves. Wow - spectacular arrogance.

@Jack65 What? Autistichedgehog's post was balanced and merely pointed out that the DH hasn't been diagnosed with ASD and random internet posters aren't qualified to make that diagnosis or know exactly how her his ASD would impact him were he to have it. She also made some distinctions between various conditions (e.g. PDA) which are often confused with ASD. That isn't having a monopoly on anything.

I'm glad to hear you are getting treatment OP. I've never had an anterior cruciate ligament tear but know it is excruciating and that once you've done it, it is likely to go again.

Can I just point out your rookie mistake though? You mentioned that you are on holiday in South Africa and suffered the injury while frolicking in the waves on Boxing Day.

Do you know nothing about some of the cunts who infest Mumsnet? You should be having a fucking miserable time in grey, damp Britain and God help you if you suggest that your husband, who might be autistic, is less than sympathetic.

How dare you try to enjoy yourself or suggest your husband is lacking in the emotional quotient department?

I once nearly posted about the time in Ibiza when I felt rotten at a glam beach club all day spoiling the party until my husband reluctantly drove me home late afternoon. I managed to hold it in until we'd parked outside the hotel and I got out and neatly spewed at the side of the car.

That was when he started thinking: 'Hmm! Maybe she is a bit poorly.'

I kept saying I'd be fine and he insisted on calling an emergency doctor to the hotel room. We did have travel insurance, which I noticed the first poster on this thread demanded to know about, but I really didn't want to drag my sorry carcass to A&E. I just wanted to die quietly.

The doctor immediately diagnosed tonsillitis with a high temperature and wrote a prescription for antibiotics - another Mumsnet no-no. 'Ooh! Antibiotic resistance. You should just sweat it out or die for the good of the herd.'

Within 30 minutes of DH getting them for me I actually started to think I might live and within an hour I thought I might want to.

Anyway, I said I nearly posted about that, OP. I didn't because I knew the response I'd get from fucking twats. I hope your knee feels a bit better and you enjoy the rest of your holiday.

But threads like this - and the hideous one in relationships (especially the first where dozens of comments had to be deleted due to their ableist content) are deeply hurtful.

@AutisticHedgehog I've taken quite a bit of shit on this thread, but your contribution has made me very angry. I remember that first Aspergers husband thread as I was going to join it, but you very much monopolised the conversation and made it all about you and completely ignored the legitimate pain of the women posting.

On this thread you've taken a few statements by some posters out of context and made categoric and binary statements like there's no acknowledgment that NT people act badly. Bullshit - the presumption has been (I, er, presume) that I am NT, and I've been told I'm acting badly. Does that not count because you think I'm NT? Would it count if I tell you I'm not NT? Does my non-NT-ity have to be ASD related for it to count for you? My point is, you are seeing this through your own filter. But this isn't your thread or your issue; it is mine. Fair enough you don't think that ASD has anything to do with my DH's behaviour - you're entitled to that opinion and to tell me so as I opened up that question. What you're not entitled to do is damn the whole thread because some people made comments you don't like. Other posters were not asking if my DH is autistic, they referenced that because I did. No he's not diagnosed, but as I said, it's considered the case by people who know him including the psychologist and psychiatrist who diagnosed our child with ASD, and my DH often openly admits it himself.

It's insulting to suggest that people are simplistically equating 'bad' behaviour with ASD. That's not the case. Yet you are pedalling the exact opposite: that ASD does not include occasionally exhibiting 'dickish' behaviour. Because at no point in any of your posts on this thread or others have I ever seen you admit that there are ASD traits or behaviour patterns that are problematic and ostensibly 'bad'. FYI, admitting this does not mean that people with ASD are worse humans than people without it.

When someone has rigid thinking and finds external expressions of empathy impossible (despite what they may internally feel), that displays often as dickish behaviour.

This statement by @SoaringSwallow beautifully sums up my DH at times. What she said about despite what they may internally feel is spot on - speaking to DH today, he said he was sick with concern for me and of course he wanted me to go to A&E, just not last night because (a) he thinks it would have been awful of him to send me alone despite me being fine with that, and (b) we had the children with us and it was late and he wanted them to get home. He was completely stumped by these two conflicting concepts. And, as @Booboostwo and others have suggested, my DH's plan for the evening and holiday had deliberately not included a trip to A&E and he was thrown by this curveball and couldn't flexibly adjust.

I think he has big problems at times articulating how he genuinely feels, it comes across as anger or somewhat differently, then he is completely perplexed and upset when he is, in his words, misinterpreted. He admits he can be impossible and hard work (and I make the same admission about myself fwiw).

He is generally an extremely caring person who shows his love through physical and practical things and solutions. He stayed up through the night last night so he'd be up when I got back from hospital. He has offered to and has done lots of little things to help me today as I'm on crutches.

When in the past I have been in hospital for surgery - as I have many times - he has been fantastic and extremely reliable. It is the curveballs thrown at him though, like an unexpected injury, that discombobulate him and he finds transitioning to accept them very hard. I think that's down to ASD.

As an Aussie, I'm very sorry your holiday and Christmas has been ruined by your knee and your trip to A&E (They're universally gruesome - sorry about the entitled druggies. They're frequent flyers, I'm afraid.). Your husband's emotional inadequacy is VERY familiar to me. I have started counselling with mine. He's a super-intelligent man. Literally the top in his field in the country and I want to shake him and ask if he has some kind of brain damage sometimes because I don't understand why what I am attempting to communicate is so terribly difficult when I am using small words and his first language. I am going to start looking for some kind of deflector shield set to my voice. Meanwhile, I know it's a small consolation, but Australia is also well-known for it's mighty fine cuisine and wine. Please enjoy this (especially the wine for the pain.) and call the airline in advance re-the legroom. At this time of year, they need to know as soon as possible as flights are fully-booked. (You may end up with an upgrade, and hubby may end up babysitting with the plebs - karma.)

Nobody has diagnosed OPs husband. People who have PARTNERS, which I repeat, is an entirely different thing from having a it yourself, or having a child with it, have noticed similarities in behaviours after OP mentioned her suspicions he has it and that one of their children have it (diagnosed). The likelihood of OPs DH having it is elevated, but nobody has said he definitely has it.

And hedgehog wasn't it you who went through that thread for partners at the beginning and asked for half of it to be deleted because it upset you? If it wasn't you, I apologise, but I seem to remember it was. That's your right. But as you well know, in the majority of cases, an Aspergers diagnosis means that someone does not understand social nuances very well, as well as other people's points of view. That doesn't disappear because you don't like it. It's part of what (often) contributes to a diagnosis.

And I'm in full agreement that there needs to be a LOT more understanding about how it presents in women and facilitation of women who have Aspergers (in particular, but anywhere on the spectrum really) to be able to seek and receive any support they may need. Especially teenage girls. That requirement does not overshadow the equal need for the women (usually, but not always) who are in relationships with a person (usually a man) with Aspergers to have their utterly unrecognised experience understood too. Especially if the marriage/relationship was entered prior to any diagnosis.

In OPs situation, she can either think, "DH is a total wanker", which some people are suggesting he is, or, "He hasn't understood, he can't change his thinking on this right now, so I need to not let it overly upset me. I'll speak to him later, after I've sought the help and support I need." One of those two options recognises that he may have a very different capacity for understanding what she's going through.

Additionally, just because we think we're being kind to someone, doesn't mean we are. That goes for anybody. But if we are unable to, or have impaired ability to understand or express understanding of other people's experiences, which is a very common (note: I didn't say either exclusively or in every case) aspect of Aspergers, then it increases the likelihood that unintentionally we're not as kind as we imagine. As OPs DH here showed.

Just to clarify, I was not talking about my partner, I was talking about myself. This is how I see things and I am quite probably autistic. This may not be how OP’s DH sees things, I don’t even know the man, but if he shares any of these kinds of stresses and anxieties about the future, planning and control. I posted my experience because I thought it might help the OP understand his behaviour.

Hope you are not in too much pain OP and all the best for the rest of your holiday.

soaring and OP

Yes it was me who reported the ableist posts on that first threa - the ones that claimed autistic people manipulated people, the ones that claimed we were incapable of looking after children, the one that stated they didn’t believe we had it any worse - that we were perfectly happy making other people’s life a misery (I have all these posts and have just reread the deleted ones)

I reported them and MN reviewed and agreed they were ableist and should be deleted. Not because they upset me FFS. If MN deleted posts just because one person was upset by a comment then most of MN would be deleted!

So on that thread, of all the comments that were posted, the only one of mine which was deleted was the one where I quoted a previously deleted comment. None of mine were deemed inappropriate, yet not only did MNHQ have to go into that thread to remind people not to be ableist, they had to deleted the offensive comments.

So I stand by what I did - I called out people who were making discriminatory comments about autistic people.

OP - I hope your leg gets better.

I remember that thread too.

I was going to join in, I have some questions about DHs ability to become utterly intractable at times.

I decided not to as it seemed that any poster who displayed her emotions, anger, irritation, end of tether ness, was reported and deleted. I too would have had my posts deleted, I couldn't have described my frustrations without describing DH as a total test.

If that poster was you, hedgehog, then shame on you. You railroaded HQ into deleting some posters who were trying very hard to think their way through an immediate situation to get to a better understanding of and more permanent resolution. Just as you have done here.

I am glad OP is stronger now, even in her pain, than I was when reading that thread.

SoaringSwallow excellent post.

OP - Hoping your leg is more comfortable today - having torn both MCLs and ACLs on various occasions you have all my sympathy! And like you, I know from bitter experience that the support of a brace etc makes all the difference between being able to sleep / move etc and not.

When I tore my MCL the first time I didn't know what I'd done so tried the "let's leave it to the morning approach". I made it to 2am before DH gave me an ultimatum -" either get up and go to A and E (and I'll come with you) or shut up and let me get to sleep" because I was whimpering every time he turned over never mind me trying to turn over. Now when I get that pop I know what I've done so just take myself straight off there. Luckily I've never needed a reconstruction - I have very strong hamstrings which helps to stablilise the knee joint without and I've learnt which activities to avoid. (According to my physio, at any one time a good chunk of the All Blacks squad - and presumably other top rugby teams - are ACL deficient because they can't afford to take the time out of their professional career for the reconstruction and instead wait until they've finished playing top-level games.) Once yours is on the mend it might be worth you seeing a really good sports physio if finances allow - it's certainly made a huge difference to the strength and stibility of my knees.

And hedgehog has kept the ‘offending’ posts, deleted at her urging, to re-read? Really?

Okay then....

Poor OP... she is in pain, on the other side of the planet, dealing with a completely different medical system, etc.... (it is nothing at all like the NHS here in Australia - the cost of medicines alone can be shocking when you come from overseas). Please back the hell off and leave your crusading for your own threads.....

@Autistichedgehog you went to the bother of reading offensive posts and asking MN to delete posts..but you kept them? To reread?! What on earth is the point in that, given that you can't exactly repost them to show everybody how offensive they were, as you've complained they were too offensive to be on MN! To each his own I guess..?!

And for the record, MN recognised, from what i remember (perhaps you've got screenshots of that too?) that the wording was clumsy times, but not badly intentioned. They deleted them because someone (you) complained about them and they could appear ablest.

@CuriousaboutSamphire - hedgehog and another poster eventually disappeared and the thread got back to its purpose. Head on over if you ever need to.

Why don’t you go and read MN’s comments as the thread is still there. Along with all my posts.

Please note that some of the posts that were deleted were considered sufficiently nasty that MNHQ actually emailed the posters to warn them. I’ve had posts deleted before but never ever had an email warning.

So not - MN did not just delete them because I asked them to - they deleted them because they made nasty generalisations about autistic people.

The thread is here

Sounds like he hasn't declared previous injuries so you insurance could be void!

@PoisonousSmurf eh?!

Only time we’ve claimed on our travel insurance for an injury was when I first tore my ACL 17 years ago (to be specific, after saying it was over 15 years before) after someone skied into the back of me.

My hand fracture in the summer didn’t involve insurance as we were in the UK.

Due to Australia’s reciprocal agreement with the UK I won’t need to claim for last nights A&E trip but I will if i have an MRI here - which I think I’m going to do as it’s fairly easy to sort out here apparently and will take a while to organise in the UK, and it will be good to know the lay of the —knee— land sooner rather than later. DH actuallly completely agrees with this

I am trying to stay in good spirits and you lot have helped with some good advice, empathy and humour. @limitedperiodonly & @justlou1 you both made me laugh.

We went out for a lovely seafood dinner tonight and I thought about how I could enjoy my stay as much as possible- have 10 days left. We’re staying in an apartment owed by a friend of a friend and it’s nice but basic.

It’s my birthday in a few days and after telling DH I’d like to lie on a sunlounger or on a balcony, he’s booked a few nights at a nice hotel with a pool and a spa and a beach for the kids. I’m really looking forward to that.

Meant to thank a PP who suggested hyper-mobility before - funnily enough DD has just been diagnosed with this after having her own leg issue recently. She’s much more hyper mobile then me but I’ve always been physically flexible so it’s a possibility. I will check it out!

Agree that a good sports physio is worth finding.

My Aussie friend is taking me to her GP tomorrow for a referral for an MRI. Happy Days

@CuriousAboutSamphire I’ve just joined ‘that’ thread after being out off joining the first one, so if you fancy doing the same you’ll have some company

OP "We went out for a lovely seafood dinner tonight"

Great. Aus has fabulous food. I loved there for a short time a long time ago.

To be totally completely honest OP I think you’ve been quite dramatic afterwards which leads me to think you are quite a dramatic person and therefore can understand why your husband thought you were being dramatic about your injury, I’d be the same as him tbh

Hope you feel better soon

^ what a shitty post