To wonder how much longer school will do nativity plays?

[GreatestShowUnicorn]

As there is no biblical scripture to show Jesus was born at the time of the winter solstice. Surely it’s just teaching creationism or that the world is flat?

Peace and goodwill to all men (women)

Just be grateful to live in a free society to practice or not practice your faith.

For the sake of completeness, I don’t think there should be Islamic or Jewish state funded schools either.

Better late than never.

“Better late than never.”

Sorry? I said something along those lines at the beginning of the thread. You must have missed it.

After the darkness of the Solstice on Dec 21st, the daylight begins to increase again. The 25th is far enough away to not be confused with pagan solstice celebrations

Actually, the Solstice is called that as the sun appears to stand still in terms of its place of rising/setting and not move for around three or four days which takes us to around 25 December which just happens to be the birthday of Mithras, and possibly of Sol Invictus, the Unconquered Sun. Seems rather pagan to me.

I am not aware of any Christian schools that celebrate our traditional pagan festivals. That supposed tolerance doesn't extend to everyone's beliefs then.

It would be great if we were allowed to set up atheist schools, where we didn't have to have daily christian worship. Where we could select pupils based on a test of their understanding of logic, evolution & science. Families would have to prove their children weren't baptised and had never applied to a faith based school. Where no religious symbols were visible. Where superior secular morality and humanism where taught.

Sadly I know that is currently illegal. So much for tolerance.

Where superior secular morality and humanism where taught

Interesting .

What is this superior secular morality that is going to be taught? Utilitarianism is not faith based but is limited in its application. Virtue theory?

Superior secular morality is the attempt to work out what is right or wrong. As opposed to theism which tries to work out what a 3rd person (a deity) thinks is right or wrong (irrelevant of it actually being right or wrong).

Your set up sounds suspiciously religious Walkingdead.

DioneTheDiabolist In what way is it anymore suspicious than the set up of a faith school?

Well faith schools DON'T (can't) insist that parents have to prove that they havent applied to non faith schools walking

In fact they pretty much expect that a non faith school is the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th choice.

If you are going to argue that every school is a "faith school" as its forced to send a broadly christan message. Then what are you going to garentee admission to every child that applies, otherwise why woukd any one apply to a school that says you cant apply to any other school, because what happens if you don't get in.

I didn't mean that your set up was any more suspicious than that of a faith school. I think it sounds exactly like a very exclusive faith school.

Well faith schools DON'T (can't) insist that parents have to prove that they haven't applied to non faith schools
'What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander'. So you are happy for 'faith' schools to have exclusive privilege for Christians, but once someone suggests that an atheist school could have exclusive access for atheists you object? Hypocrite.

DioneTheDiabolist, I think it sounds exactly like a very exclusive faith school. Yes its called equality. As a tolerant Christian I assume you would support it!

Somehow I suspect Christians will never support equality.

Walkingdeadfangirl

Why are you so bitter about Christian’s?

I cannot fathom why you expect a Christian to be tolerant of you and others and yet you cannot do that yourself? Hypocrite.

Superior secular morality

Terrorist attacks in Britain by basques, British, Catalan? confusedLink please, and the fact that you are more likely to be killed by a British male is irrelevant and a silly remark.

Considering I was answering a question about terrorists in EUROPE.

British terrorists include bombs in London, Birmingham, Manchester, the murders at Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy.

It's not that unusual for British people to visit Spain and France.

Or the exclusion of Catholics from various jobs and offices up until the 1800s ?

Far more recently, Tony Blair could not convert to be RC and be prime minister due to the good old act of settlement.

It's only since 2011 a royal can keep their place in the line of succession if they marry a catholic, they still lose it if they convert.

Errr walking did you read my post????? Are you delibrately picking a fight.

I said faith schools Don't and can't insist on one of your critria (i know thats spelt wrong i'm Dyslexic, i say that cos you seem so determind to pick a fight you're coming across as the sort of person that would take delight in correcting my spelling and being high and mighty about it) so YOU are the one that wants a special critria for your "faith" school that existing faith schools dont and can't have. Why is your school to be sooooooooooo exclusive and rule out applying for ANY OTHER school when other faith schools are NOT allowed to do that.

You can have your athiesis school, but its no more special than any other faith school, there for you can not dictate there is a critiria that parents have to prove the've never applied for a faith school.

Also, you are just generally being a hypocrite, my catholic best friend went to a cofE school, i as CofI (Ireland) went to both catholic and Cof E Schools in england. No where did my parents have to prove they had never applied to a school of another denomiation, or non faith school. Indeed in my school i knew of at least 4 JW's.

So actally faith schools sound a lot more mixed, understanding and aiming for a less exclusive society than your oh so brilliant atheist school that would exclude a great deal of the population - hypocrite

There just should not be selection for state funded schools. Asking parents to prove themselves better atheists is just as ridiculous as asking them to prove themselves better Christians. More ridiculous, probably.

And as for terrorism- a significant part of my life in the U.K. was constantly disrupted by the threat of terror attacks by a supposedly Christian group. This does not mean I think Christians are likely to be terrorists. Equally, I see no reason to equate Muslims with terrorism because some extremists are.

bertrand it kind of anmoys me that people seem to have forgotten tje autrosities committed by two christian groups either side of that divide. I'm not proud of that part of my countries history, but to forget it would be massively reckless.

No. Because it’s a play. And singing. And part of our cultural heritage. See also Guy Fawkes Night, Shrove Tuesday, Burns Night, Valentines Day and St Pat’s.

So really you want to pick and choose which religious events to have and not have based on how much you get out of them such as enjoyment. Nativity plays and Carol singing are a bit of fun so you are allowed to have these as public events , but anything else is a bit boring so you will need to do that in private because it upsets us non religious people

British terrorists include bombs in London, Birmingham, Manchester, the murders at Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy.

Did these terrorists specifically claim their religion as a source for their terrorism? Pretty sure that IRA terrorism was/is about a land dispute, rather than claiming they were bombing Manchester in the name of Christianity or because someone had said something offensive about Jesus Christ .

Also, if faith schools are so terrible, why do so many families fake belonging to a church to get their non-religious kids into the school? Surely atheists should stick to their principles and/or set up non-religious schools if they disapprove of there being so many religious schools. If all atheists/secularists refused to send their children to religious schools then the schools wouldn't get as much funding per head and wouldn't be so good or it could be that the religious ethos of the school plays a significant part in making the school a good school (in terms of encouraging good behaviour, morality, treatment of individuals from a kind/Christian perspective). Also, ironic that people go on about immorality in Christianity whilst lying about their involvement in a faith in order to get their kids into the good church school.

Walkingdead, while I am tolerant, I'm not a Christian. I'm interested in the proof you would require for admittance. How would the parents prove their children weren't baptised and that they made no applications to faith schools?

After the darkness of the Solstice on Dec 21st, the daylight begins to increase again. The 25th is far enough away to not be confused with pagan solstice celebrations

Science tells us that the positions of the Earth, Moon and Sun are all shifting slightly, and dates drift over time. Bear in mind the English calendar had to be adjusted by 13 days by Pope Gregory in the 1700s. (And Russia was 17 days out by 1917, if I remember correctly). That's before you start adjusting for the precession of the Equinoxes.

So trying to backtrack and work out what our ancestors thought a particular day was - let alone what they did on that day - without written records is more an educated guess than definitive.

(They're free to do it, but this is why "druids" prancing about at Stonehenge raises a smile. And I write that as one who has been to a winter solstice at Stonehenge ....)

Far more recently, Tony Blair could not convert to be RC and be prime minister due to the good old act of settlement.

Er, is that true ? Feels a tad "everyone knows". Cite ?