Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be shocked at this comment about poverty?

552 replies

abacucat · 18/12/2018 23:52

I have been thinking for a few days about a comment a MNer made on a thread about poverty. She said that she has nearly been in tears because a woman at the toddler group she went to had a hole in her shoe and thus had wet feet.
I have a hole in my shoe. I got a wet foot today. I don't think this is a big deal or worthy of "nearly being in tears". Surely it is pretty normal to have to wait a bit to be able to afford to replace things like shoes?
I just do't see it as a big deal at all, and I think this comment was OTT.
AIBU?

OP posts:
xwhoiamx · 22/12/2018 10:32

Is there actually a conversation going on here about whether it is some people's fault they are poor? Surely it's blindingly obvious that not everyone can be well off in a capitalist society as there will never be enough high paying jobs for everyone? Sure, maybe some individuals could have been among the rich if they'd budgeted better or worked harder, but then someone else would have just had to fall down in their place. What is the point in such petty speculation about individuals? We live in a system of society that knowingly allows a large section of people to be poorer than the rest. Those people clean floors and shine shoes for the rich, so the rich get richer. People are poor bc capitalism. Lay off those who've found themselves on the losing side of this arrangement. Hmm

acegod · 22/12/2018 14:22

It costs up to 10 pounds to replace a shoe can't someone hear donate. Were all millionaires here aren't we???

Original poster
abacucat · 22/12/2018 14:36

One of the challenges of being poor, is that everyone else expects you never to make a bad financial decision. Middle class and upper class people can do that and no one says anything. But if you are poor and do this, it just becomes proof that it is all your own fault you are poor.

OP posts:
AloneInMyHead · 22/12/2018 15:20

One of the challenges of being poor, is that everyone else expects you never to make a bad financial decision

Only the judgemental ones, not everyone. I suppose if you are poorer, it's more important to make good decisions as the consequences can mean having no money for food. Everyone is capable of making bad decisions, they just don't show as much if you have more money. Ignore any arseholes that judge.

WilburforceRaven · 22/12/2018 16:18

One of the challenges of being poor, is that everyone else expects you never to make a bad financial decision. Middle class and upper class people can do that and no one says anything. But if you are poor and do this, it just becomes proof that it is all your own fault you are poor.

This! It's also expensive. The 5 £10 boots are more expensive than the sturdier £38 ones that last longer but for which you didn't have the outlay. Pre-payment meters cost more, rent is often more expensive to pay out than mortgage payments, you are in less of a position to borrow money and when you do it will likely cost you more, things that can improve your earning potential, like knowing how to drive, are often beyond your reach.

acegod · 22/12/2018 21:17

the rich dont save up they invest. They invest in businesses, isa account, propoertyand things like tomarrows energy projects. They then take their interests like wages per month.

LEMtheoriginal · 22/12/2018 22:24

It is certainly far more expensive to be poor than rich. Also money makes money - everybody knows this

mathanxiety · 22/12/2018 23:13

Agree with your post of Thu 20-Dec-18 17:32:27 Shepherdspieisminging.

Poverty has an effect of mental health. Hopelessness is a horrible thing.

I don't agree with Bluntness' apportioning of blame therefore, when people have developed self defeating habits. Not everyone comes through their childhood equipped with the resilience and determination necessary to cope with whatever life throws at you. There is a real chicken and egg situation here.

WilburforceRaven · 22/12/2018 23:51

Just so, math.

totallycluelessoverhere · 23/12/2018 06:50

Absolutely math.

feelingverylazytoday · 23/12/2018 08:55

Not everyone comes through their childhood equipped with the resilience and determination necessary to cope with whatever life throws at you
Yes this is very true. If you grow up in a chaotic household where things like healthy food, adequate heating and clothing and cleanliness aren't prioritised where are you going to learn basic life skills such as budgeting, cooking cheap nutritious food, washing and mending clothes, etc.
Bluntness does have a point re some people wasting money on drink, drugs, smoking, etc, but it can be a hard cycle to break. I would guess I am poor by British standards but I manage quite well, because I learnt how to from my parents (especially my mother) , things like paying bills as quickly as possible, how to cook cheap meals, how to look presentable on a very small budget. I did have to break my addictions of smoking and drinking to do it though, the smoking was extremely difficult I've got to say and I don't really judge people who can't give up.

5fivestar · 23/12/2018 09:10

feelingverylazytoday - now you see if you were rich you’d be paying bills the day before you got cut off so the interest stays in your account not theirs. I’ve had some random conversations with the power companies about how I bet I’d like to be in credit with them
Over the summer so I don’t get big bills in the winter .... Er no .... that divided by 12 number can stay in my account thank you and you can just tell me what I owe each quarter. Cheeky fuckers make a fortune hording peoples money.

feelingverylazytoday · 23/12/2018 09:29

5fivestar well it's not just gas and electric, is it (and many 'poor' people are likely to be on key meters). It was a hard lesson for me to learn that I have to do everything I can to keep up with my council tax payments, because I can't afford court costs on top of it. Even my phone package carries a £10 penalty for late payment.

Coyoacan · 23/12/2018 12:16

It is an odd world we live in. It takes much more financial competence to live on a low wage than on a high wage.

whatreallymatters45 · 23/12/2018 12:35

Back to the original holes in shoes scenario. I often have wet feet and buy a new pair of shoes about once a year. I suppose I am poor I haven't really put poverty and holes in shoes together (for me). If my son has holes in his school shoes he gets a new pair. If he has holes in his other shoes and he can still wear them comfortably (in the summer) he still wears them.
I have a professional occupation, single parent and paying extortionate London rent. It is renting a property in London that makes me 'poor'.

Bluntness100 · 23/12/2018 14:10

I don't agree with Bluntness' apportioning of blame therefore, when people have developed self defeating habits

I dislike this desire to remove all personal responsibility from people. That no matter what's wrong it can never be their fault it's always someone else's.

Yes, some people are in poverty for reasons that are out with their control, But I've seen it. The feckless fucker down the pub drinking his wages, down the bookies blowing what he doesn't have, and not putting food on the table for his kids. And no I don't look at these people and think ah well they weren't brought up with resilience and determination. So that's alright then because it's not their fault.

And I doubt their kids excuse it either. And it's not gender specific, I chose Male here, but I can easily change it to the female scenarios I've witnessed.

TheBigBangRocks · 23/12/2018 14:45

I dislike this desire to remove all personal responsibility from people. That no matter what's wrong it can never be their fault it's always someone else's

This ^^

Whilst we excuse poor choices, people will continue to make them and model those choices to children.

Merryoldgoat · 23/12/2018 17:04

I dislike this desire to remove all personal responsibility from people. That no matter what's wrong it can never be their fault it's always someone else's.

I agree with this.

I grew up in poverty, and it was entirely avoidable but my mum and her ‘partner’ made one shitty choice after another including having children they couldn’t afford.

I’ll never forget being sent to ask for credit in the local supermarket because my mum was too embarrassed. I was only 14 and I felt so awful. The shop owner was so kind to us.

However, I am well able to see plenty of poverty which is absolutely not the fault of the sufferer and it’s a disgrace there are people working full time unable to afford childcare and to feed their families without government assistance. But that’s a different thread.

GunpowderGelatine · 23/12/2018 17:19

I dislike this desire to remove all personal responsibility from people. That no matter what's wrong it can never be their fault it's always someone else's

Yes!

I know one family who plead poverty, always posting on Facebook about how they use food banks and it's all the Tories fault. But the mum "can't" work because she home schools her children - surely a simple answer would be send them to school and get a job? I'm not sure what she expects the Tories to be doing, paying a wage to people who home school?

They also got a fancy 7-seater car the other day so I'm not buying that they're completely on the breadline

GunpowderGelatine · 23/12/2018 17:25

My SIL also had to move out her flat with her DD and back in with her parents and give up her car, she's a single mum and full time student, definitely in the 'poverty' category. her 7yo doesn't have her own room in her grand house she shares with SIL. And because they love rurally they share one car between 4 adults in the house (when petrol can be afforded) so she can't always take her DD to school and has to arrange for others to pick her up and take her. If there's no one her DD skips school.

But...her DD goes to private school 15 miles away. SIL pays £250 a month on a bursary, which when she only gets £750 in universal credit is a big chunk. But she lives opposite her local school, so again, would you not sacrifice that luxury and make sure your DD can get to school every day!

GunpowderGelatine · 23/12/2018 17:25

*gran's not grand

totallycluelessoverhere · 23/12/2018 19:23

Sounds like she couldn’t afford to live anywhere else even if she gave up the private school gunpowder. She might be able to afford a car though.
Her income must be more than £750pm. Child benefit? Student loans?
Sounds like she really can’t afford school fees though.

5fivestar · 23/12/2018 20:00

GunpowderGelatine - if she’s your SIL - what’s your brother contributing?

GunpowderGelatine · 23/12/2018 23:33

@5fivestar she is DH's brother's ex, he was paying maintenance (most of the time) but now because of the school situation they basically have her 50/50 so no maintenance is paid by anyone anymore

GunpowderGelatine · 23/12/2018 23:37

@totallycluelessoverhere I'm assuming the £750 is just universal credits, she probably does get child benefit on top (unless it's in the same payment?). She doesn't pay for Uni she got a grant that covers 100% of her course so no student debts.

When she was renting she got very generous housing benefit, covered all but about £50 of her rent and she paid very little council tax, so I do think she could rent again - but hey ho! Not benefit bashing BTW - I always thought it was good that she got her rent covered by HB, it meant she didn't have to struggle to make rent payments, but I do think she has made unwise choices especially re private school

Swipe left for the next trending thread