To be shocked at this comment about poverty?

[abacucat]

I have been thinking for a few days about a comment a MNer made on a thread about poverty. She said that she has nearly been in tears because a woman at the toddler group she went to had a hole in her shoe and thus had wet feet.
I have a hole in my shoe. I got a wet foot today. I don't think this is a big deal or worthy of "nearly being in tears". Surely it is pretty normal to have to wait a bit to be able to afford to replace things like shoes?
I just do't see it as a big deal at all, and I think this comment was OTT.
AIBU?

Either way poverty isn't shameful unless your actions chose it, not working when you could, not doing what you can to pull yourself out of it. Or squandering money on booze or fags or whatever, but it can feel embarrassing if you present as poor, from your clothes to your shoes.

I really cannot get my head round people trying to argue it's not poverty if you have to walk about in winter with holes in your one and only pair of shoes because you have ot prioritise money on other things, like food. How bad does it have to be to classify it as poverty for those people?

Pretending it's not poverty indicates you think poverty is shameful and some folks will feel better if you don't label it as such, and that's not ok. It's not shameful. Stop perpetuating the myth it is.

Lizzie plenty of people have washing machines in Africa! It’s a pretty big continent!

There is a difference between embarrassment and shame.
The appropriate feeling when your kids are picked on for any reason is surely anger at the bullies, maybe accompanied by anger at the school that allows such horrible behaviour?

Bluntness, I am nodding at all of your posts here.

We're one of those family's. Dh's shoes have holes in and we can't afford to replace them so he's had wet feet for weeks. But we're slightly better off than last year so the children have what they need, shoes etc, it's just us who go without. So I don't think we count as being in poverty because the kids have what they need even if it's from charity shops

Does it matter to you to think of yourselves as not in poverty, Aftereights?

Ok may be I meant embarrassment. I am trying to drag myself out of the hole I'm in but I'm not very academic (despite working in school). I'm currently taking on any training they are giving though but feel this kind of work is never going to pay well.

I’ve gone out in holey shoes. Never in my life have I not been able to afford to buy a cheap pair of shoes then and there. I am just not that observant/don’t care that much.

Does it matter to you to think of yourselves as not in poverty

I'm curious about this too? I mean this gently but if your husband is having to wear holey shoes because you can't afford to replace them, then yes of course it's poverty, but why do you wish to not classify it as such?

We really need to get out of the mindset it's shameful so must be denied.

@mathanxiety tbh it doesn't really make a difference to me if people think we're in poverty or not. The kids have what they need and there's nothing we can do to change our finances atm, they're 2 and 7 months, childcare would cancel out what I'd make working so we'd be no matter off if I worked, so there's nothing we can do to change finances atm. As long as the kids have what they need were happy, and we'll just plod along till they're in school

I'm not sure tbh, I guess I just don't want to be classed as living in poverty because it makes me feel like shit for my kids if that makes sense. I already feel shit that DH works but yet the overdraft is always maxed out from living expenses, and feel shit that I have to tell the two year old no when he wants a magazine from the shop etc. I guess I just don't want a label making me feel more shit

And we might be poor money wise but we're rich because we have each other and our kids and that's something that a lot of people don't have sadly

I grew up in the 80’s, similar poverty to arnoldcat but I recognise it as poverty. Most people I knew growing up only had an annual day trip to Blackpool - the people we saw as being rich went to a caravan park for a week, nobody went abroad. To be honest if we had an annual trip to Blackpool we felt better off than some.
I didn’t go on the schools annual day trip because we couldn’t afford it so I used to stay behind at school. We were lucky that we always had school uniform because there was a grants system for school clothes in the 80’s. We didn’t have a washing machine and my mum (single parent to many) would wash everything at night in the bath using a few kettlesnof hot water. We couldn’t afford to have hot water as the immersion was to expensive to run so we would have one bath a week and that bath would be shared (2 baths of water between 7 children).
Our shoes would be glued together.
All of our non school clothes were repaired with patches and handed down.
It was just normal to us back then but as an adult I now recognise it as poverty.

I still think that people who can’t afford to buy shoes when they need to replace their single pair with holes are indeed in poverty.

Having a benefits safety net also doesn’t guarantee a life free from poverty. Sanctions, UC waiting times, overpayment pay backs, LHA being too low and having a mortgage to pay whilst unemployed are all very valid reasons why a life on benefits could mean a life in poverty. The safety net isn’t always very safe at all.

Aftereights,
If what people think of you is something you are conscious of, I am interested in why you would feel that, or be conscious of other people thinking of you as living in poverty and thinking this perception on the part of others is a bad thing.

Again, to echo the other posters here, I mean this kindly. (I have been poor. I still buy my clothes from second hand shops because at the back of my mind is the thought that some day down the road I might rue the day when I spent the full whack on a clothing item.)

Weirdly, my definition of poor is not being able to afford to replace shoes...

Me and a friend sat discussing our childhoods about 20 years ago (both raised in poverty by any definition) and decided that if shoes broke and we couldn’t replace them then that meant we were poor.

I think it's just because poverty is seen as a bad thing, and I want to do good things for my kids. I don't want to be labelled as the poor family if that makes sense. I'm not explaining myself very well I don't think.

If what people think of you is something you are conscious of, I am interested in why you would feel that

Oh, come off it. 99% of people care about what other people think of them. It's one of the foundation stones of any society. It's not a personal failing on behalf of @Aftereights91.

This year my shoes have holes in, I’ve actually stuck a sanitary pad in them to provide some protection. Normally I can afford a decent pair but the last year and a half have been a nightmare, job loss etc.
I’m poor at the moment , no point denying it, it is what it is for now.

You shouldn’t feel bad for being poor Aftereights91, it’s no reflection of your parenting or love for your children.

Aftereights, I think you're explaining yourself very well. And I understand rhe mindset. And I think this is where much of the discussion is coming from.

It's better to deny one is in poverty than to admit it, because it's somehow shameful to admit it. Even though it doesn't change the circumstances.

@Bluntness100 exactly. Nothing will change so why do people need to know kind of thing

I was embarrassed by our poverty as a child. I hated going to school after Xmas and being asked what I got whilst everyone was discussing lots of expensive presents. I used to lie about the end of year trip and tell my friends I didn’t want to go and thought it would be a shit day out because I didn’t want to admit that we couldn’t afford it. I lied that my feet were awkward and trainers felt uncomfortable so I didn’t have to tell people my mum couldn’t afford to buy me a pair for PE.

I totally understand people feeling embarrassed about being in poverty and not wanting to admit it to themselves.

Aftereights I am the OP and feel the same.

Of course it's poverty if you can't afford to replace shoes. Poverty is defined differently depending on the average standard of living within a country. What is poverty here is different to poverty in Kenya or Ethiopia.

If you can't afford to replace a £40 pair of shoes then that most certainly IS Poverty as you are living pay check to pay check. If you can't afford to replace shoes, how would you replace your cooker? It suggests you have no savings ( both shoes and a cooker are total necessities). It suggests you live hand to mouth. What would you do if your gas and electric company had made a mistake and your bills went up by that £40 that you already don't have for shoes? You either choose between heating or foot wear and are still left struggling.

That is poverty.

I'm not talking about people that own property or prefer to save as that is a personal choice. You could sell up/cash in and be better off. I'm talking renters /lodgers etc.

I know admitting it is hard to do, but minimising it just allows the government and others (like we have seen on the thread) to overlook it as ‘not that bad’. I also think from my own experience facing up to it was a catalyst for change, even in small steps. Asking for help - asking for support, looking for new ways to manage things, claiming what you are entitled to. I think shame can often lead people to not stand up for themselves, like the women who don’t fight the repayment arrangements as they are too afraid to