To be shocked at this comment about poverty?

[abacucat]

I have been thinking for a few days about a comment a MNer made on a thread about poverty. She said that she has nearly been in tears because a woman at the toddler group she went to had a hole in her shoe and thus had wet feet.
I have a hole in my shoe. I got a wet foot today. I don't think this is a big deal or worthy of "nearly being in tears". Surely it is pretty normal to have to wait a bit to be able to afford to replace things like shoes?
I just do't see it as a big deal at all, and I think this comment was OTT.
AIBU?

Never had more than one pair of shoes (school) when growing up and when I was allowed to have another paid (trainers), when I was 12 I thought it was the best thing ever!
Even now, I still only have one pair of decent shoes, one pair of trainers, gardening boots and wellies.
Never wore heels and never will!

I know it's a bit off subject, but we all have odd shaped feet in this house, esp teenage dd who has very wide but otherwise quite small feet - it's an absolute pain getting shoes that fit properly! Buying online is a total lottery and we have honestly spent hours sometimes trailing from shop to shop trying to find something that fits and is comfortable! When we find something that's comfortable they tend to get worn into the ground, we then repeat the process

To answer the op, I certainly wouldn't presume someone was in poverty based purely on noticing holes in their shoes (well I probably wouldn't notice that anyway, but still). Shoes are often such shocking quality these days, they don't last like they used to!

You seriously think not being able to replace a washing machine is poverty

I think it is yes.

I would disagree there. Most of us have launderettes they can get to if they can't afford a new washing machine straightaway. We've done that when waiting for our washing machine to be repaired/replaced.

Most of us have launderettes they can get to if they can't afford a new washing machine straightaway.

No, 'most' don't have one in walking distance they can cart their laundry to and they also cost a bomb.

Regardless of whether you have a laundrette in walking distance or not I dont think you can class not being able to buy a new washing machine om instantly should yours break as being in poverty. Poverty is choosing to heat or eat, trying to make the minimum amount of credit on your prepayment meter last til you get enough to top up again, having to walk in the rain cos you cant afford the bus fare. Not having a spare £300 is not poverty.

I accept that not everyone has a launderette within walking distance. We didn't, we used our car. (I know, another thing that not everyone can afford.) I should think most people living in cities can access a launderette. I know that some people live in the country and can't get to a launderette.

I suppose I find it hard to see the lack of a washing machine as true poverty because I have experience of Africa where no one had washing machines. And also, no one had washing machines in this country until relatively recently. Unlike food and clothing, it's something you can get by with not having.

But I do concede that most of us would find it very inconvenient having to cope without a washing machine, so not having one would definitely feel like poverty.

Lizzie48 - getting to a laundrette without a car is a bloody nightmare imagine getting the bus with a bag full of sheets. I actually got the laundrette to come to me when we were without for a week, £25 for it all washed and ironed and delivered back. Would have cost the same sat feeding the machines in the laundrette

I think if I saw someone on a cold wet day (assuming this given the weather recently) with a hole in their shoe and cold wet feet at a toddler group it would make me feel sad too.

Yes I agree with some previous posters that if in the current weather (even with Christmas coming up) you can't afford to by an essential item such as a pair of shoes once they are letting the water in (and you don't have any other seasonally appropriate shoes) then that is poverty. Dry feet in winter are a necessity.

Now i realise that some will say im struggling a bit with the definition of poverty but im not totally closed to its possibility.

Obviously no one on here knows me but you have my word that my tales of woe are 100% cast iron true. I could tell you more but i shant bore you all.

I guess the ultimate answer is that the solutions are in the hands of the people . The people must rise up as one and protest but who will organise them?

All i can say is that ive had my share of poverty which I honestly believe was much worse than that which is described as poverty now. I have no desire to have any more of it and i do not wish to pay any more tax as i pay enough of it. I too am in the higher tax band. I actually DO have a choice as to how much tax i pay because i can exercise some control on it through skillful planning.

I give the Government enough and if they fritter it on overseas aid,vanity projects and waste then it isnt my problem.

You can’t keep comparing the U.K. with 3rd world countries. We don’t have an absolutely corrupt government, where some people live in palaces and others live in shacks with no running water. We are a technologically advanced country where everyone is expected to access internet banking and universal credits online. If you don’t you are automatically disadvantaged. In many ways we have a lot of advantages, but at the exact same time a large section of society is excluded from accessing or benefitting from the wealth of the U.K. or these advantages. The elderly are isolated and living in poverty. Disabled people struggle with basic needs due to strict rules over claims. Single parents find themselves in a benefits trap battling with complicated systems that make no sense, feeling isolated ashamed and alone. The best people can hope for is that their kids will be educated at school (not a luxury) and that the NHS doesn’t collapse in their lifetime.

The U.K. is a different kind of poverty to Africa, but it doesn’t make it NOT poverty (read absolute vs relative).

I can imagine it isn't easy. The question is, though, is it poverty? I suppose it depends whether you're in a position to save up for a new one. You might have to cut back for a couple of months, but it would be a temporary problem and once it was fixed then you wouldn't be in poverty. It would be a massive inconvenience whilst it was going on, but I wouldn't call it poverty.

If on the other hand you can't do this and you're in debt, them yes, that's poverty. Because you would never be able to replace anything that broke down.

It's very interesting actually. Our generation sees a washing machine as a necessity, but my DM and MIL wouldn't see it that way, because there weren't any washing machines when they were growing up. (They didn't use the launderette, though, they did their washing by hand.)

I give the Government enough and if they fritter it on overseas aid,vanity projects and waste then it isnt my problem

Fritter it on overseas aid ? Okay, I know what you are now. Enough said. As long as you're ok. 🙄

There are also different levels, as has been said before. To be destitute, to be in poverty, and to be poor.

I don't know why you think it is different, @arnold, when women are prostituting themselves and children are going hungry and houses are cold, without even having stoves to heat the place often enough. It is the same as ever.

I'd argue it was Dickensian except now we don't have workhouses as they were abolished for being horrendous so instead the people who would have suffered in them die.

All i can say is that ive had my share of poverty which I honestly believe was much worse than that which is described as poverty now

Can you really not see anyone as better off than you were as not also in poverty? You cannot see degrees of it? It's not a competition. If it's not as bad as your life or worse then it isn't poverty? You can't be serious with this view.

You can see a woman who prioritises feeding her kids over buying new shoes, so walks about for months, in winter, with cold wet feet, risking ill health and injury, whilst she tries to save money to replace rhem and becayse it wasn't as bad as yours you think it's not poverty?

The advantages we have is that we are not as exposed to disease. We have access to running water (by a luxury) and heat (also is not a luxury), prevention of diseases with vaccinations and education (not a luxury).

We have washing machines for various reasons: we are a developed country and this the accepted way to wash your clothes. Parents are expected to work or look for work, as they will be sanctioned by HMRC UC and I don’t think ‘sorry I didn’t come last week was spending the entire day washing our laundry in the bath with a washboard and they took a week to dry as I have no spinner and it’s -1degrees and raining’

someone who lives in a remote area of extreme absolute poverty in a hot climate with a corrupt government, and is at high risk of deadly diseases - of course I feel for those people. I am only human. I wish it wasn’t like that for them either. I would vote if I could in their country but I can’t. I donate and try to help. I vote in our country and it hasn’t helped. I donate. It’s still happening

I suppose I find it hard to see the lack of a washing machine as true poverty because I have experience of Africa where no one had washing machines. And also, no one had washing machines in this country until relatively recently. Unlike food and clothing, it's something you can get by with not having

More women work longer hours now, who would end up doing the hand washing of clothes? Who would end up with sore skin and bad backs from doing it regularly? When would they find the time?

Did you actually wash your own clothes while in Africa? We’ve always employed a couple of women to wash them. IME it’s only the poor people who hand wash their own clothes there.

OK lets leave aside whether i believe real poverty exists and lets just say i accept that times are tough for some people.

I did a google on the UC is making women turn to prostitution and i could only really find several stories that all related to this claim by Frank Field, a well respected Labour Politician..

www.frankfield.co.uk/latest-news/articles/news.aspx?p=1021675

Another thing that has received much publicity over the last year is this new thing called "period poverty". In my local Big tesco alongside the plethora of other collection boxes for foodbanks,cats,dogs,homeless,etc there is one called "red box". You buy sanitary wear and dump them in there.
So i check and i find very quickly that a pack of 16 branded always ultra sensitives can be had for 95 pence.

I dont wish to digress into female sanitary wear but have we really reached the stage where there isnt even 95 pence per month available in the household budget?

I guess the other thing of course is that where i lived in the 70s no one had gas central heating. We were just used to the ..err...comfort level of a single coal fire. Nor were we used to fitted carpets,washing machines or household gadgetry.

Anyway i'll shut up for a while and perhaps just read and learn..

@FissionChips

I accept your point there. I was only there on a temporary basis, so no I didn't wash my own clothes. And those working longer term often did pay local women to do their washing, which saves them time and provides extra income for the women doing it for them.

I think actually that a lot of things are seen as necessities in this country that weren't seen that way in the past. For example, most people have dishwashers now, which definitely wasn't the case when I was growing up!

But yes, I can accept that washing all your clothes by hand isn't a viable solution for working mothers. I suspect that in practice, a lot of people have friends or family members who would let them use their washing machine.

Arnold unfortunately I like many women suffer from periods so heavy I have had a surgical intervention that didn’t work. I spend around £10 a month on products. I also have 2 teenage girls who usually need at least £5 worth each, of a sanitary product that doesn’t make us uncomfortable and rashes etc.

DD2 is allergic to SLS and many chemicals. She needs all products to be SLS free. I have spent a considerable amount of time searching for such products that are not extortionately expensive, she needs special shampoo for her scalp, a special moisturiser, SLS free conditioner, SLS free shower gel. Without these she is very uncomfortable and gets infected skin from scratching. I also need some kind of barrier cream from sanitary wear, I can’t wear tampons as I get thrush and BV, which is even MORE expensive to deal with...

And I don’t have gas central heating. I have economy 7 storage heating. I think this is common in rented housing. It’s expensive and ineffective. We were so cold last week that we all slept fully clothed.