To ask what we have to look forward to after March 29th 2019

[Bearbehind]

It turns out Theresa May’s definition of ‘soverignity and democracy’ is to postpone a democratic vote, not allow anyone except her to change their mind and generally run to clock down until her deal is the only option.

So what do people think about that?

What are the benefits we have to look forward to when we leave the EU given it turns out ‘they don’t actually need is more than we need them’ after all?

What are we doing this for?

(And for those who want to ignore Brexit, don’t read this thread. Equally, this is the biggest thing this country has ever faced in most of our generation so please don’t banish this to the Brexit section)

Should no deal go ahead, it will not be fine as I have seen said on here.

If it’s May deal, there will be a transition period, so no big change immediately. Longer term, I fear more cuts

Deal or no deal we also will have years of Brexit as UK scrambles trying to get a trade deal with EU and other countries. Will go on for years. Our influence on the world stage will be diminished and there will be economic hardship - great, just what we need after ten years of austerity.

I am not a specialist in trade, economy, health, science but when the vast majority in these areas warn there will be negative consequences in their areas by Brexit and a few outliers refute that I listen to the majority. Own government studies have acknowledged all forms of Brexit will have a negative inpact in many areas for some time. You can’t leave a powerful bloc that you have been a major player in for 45 years and not expect huge upheaval.

I will also not be looking forward to the loss of free movement and loss of European citizienship. The freedom to study, work and live anywhere in the EU should you wish was a wonderful thing.

When we leave the EU we could have frictionless trade with the EU &/or the rest of the world.

Complete Frictionless trade can only happen when part of a single market, as the US enjoys as a union of states and the EU enjoys.

We can intervene to support British industry without falling foul of EU State Aid rules.

I am pretty sure there are state aid rules that WTO sets for member countries. They may be different rules, but there are still rules.

Not being part of an organisation that is increasingly allowing extremist politics to flourish.

Populism is inherently divisive which is too extremist for my liking.

What will be better? Good rhetorical question. No-one knows until it happens. There are all all kinds of glass half-empty people out there. I imagine it's the glass half-full type of people who will find a way to prosper.

Remainer here.
Why do we believe a Tory government would give increased state aid to anything? Isn’t that a terribly... socialist.... thing to do?

Corbyn himself has said that the EU may block his agenda if he gets into power. So the one possible upside I see if we leave is that it would be easier to enact Labours manifesto as 1) EU rules on state aid may not apply and 2) Tories will be out of government for about 20 years after this debacle.

This is a useful summary of the two sides' positions. From May this year.

www.theweek.co.uk/brexit-0

Op, seems to have an ace to grind.

Your two options to heal the divide are a pipe dream. That's the point of a democracy, majority rules. And majority said leave. That's it.

If there was a second referendum and the vote was different. What then best two out of three? It's insanity. The die is cast, we shall have to let the chips fall where they may. There isn't enough time between now and March for another vote anyway.

I don't blame Teresa May, what ever deal she does, it could be the best ever. Parliament would still say no because they don't want to leave. It's a bunch of children spitting there toys out because they dont have there own way.

I'm happy to leave and see what happens.

Also picking on Russia about her username and linking it to brexit... That's clutching at straws and making an issue out of nothing.

So still no actual tangible benefits then, just a lot of wishful thinking.

Your two options to heal the divide are a pipe dream. That's the point of a democracy, majority rules. And majority said leave. That's it.

If there was a second referendum and the vote was different. What then best two out of three? It's insanity

Those 2 comments are completely contradictory.

How can you say ‘majority rules’ then say if the majority now ruled something different that wouldn’t count?

The whole point of a people’s vote would be to gain consensus on what the people want now that ‘cake and eat it’ is off the table.

Democracy is all about being able to make decisions based on the current circumstances and being able to revise those decisions when the situation changes.

The original vote was based on false promises. A new vote would confirm what people actually want given the reality of the situation.

Given Leavers are simply unable to list even 1 tangible benefit, it’s clear why they don’t want another vote; the are not confident they’d win.

I think Brexit debates miss the bigger picture.

Remainers have not put a case forward as to how to solve the very real problems that people are facing. People voted Leave because they felt their lot would be better out of the EU.

An intervention in our country is needed. I don’t believe Brexit is the right one but I want to see a compelling alternative put forward that will improve economic and social wellbeing for the 17m that voted out. This I think is the only way to heal the division.

So Remainers have to put forward the case for remaining and solve all social ills.

Austerity is the cause of many issue. Simples.

Jazzybeats - most problems are caused by lack of funding in public services. The solution would be to elect a government that wants to invest in public services. The absolute opposite of a solution would be to piss away £3bn on a plan which everyone agrees will ruin the economy for decades. Things can only get a lot, lot worse.

Well we get to see what it's like to live in a state where the army needs to be deployed to ensure that the basic needs of its citizens are met.

It will be nice to watch the likes of JRM and Johnson being held to account for their lies that a no deal is fine. But I have a suspicion that many vocal brexiteers will suddenly get jobs in the US or somewhere and leave the country for the next five or ten years.

I can't think of anything else. My little family is likely to be severely impacted by no deal issues and there is nothing I can do to stop it. So I guess I might find out just how much more stress i can take.

Daily Mail headline today:
Theresa May 'tears up manifesto pledges on social care and A Levels' so UK can prepare for No Deal doomsday as Health Secretary charters the NHS's own PLANE to fly in cancer treatments

Funny how SOME pledges like social care and education can be scrapped without a second thought but others- like Brexit aka wrecking the country to line a few rich boys' pockets- are nothing short of sacred! 😡

An intervention in our country is needed. I don’t believe Brexit is the right one but I want to see a compelling alternative put forward that will improve economic and social wellbeing for the 17m that voted out.

Except, the group that most strongly voted for Brexit were pensioners, pensioners are the least likely group in society at the moment to be poor. A lot of very well heeled home counties pensioners voted Leave. Why are these people routinely ignored in driving forward Brexit? It just gets blamed on the poor instead.

It's not that simple. Class and economic division is rife in this country and always has been.
Many remainers just do not want their economic privileges to be changed at all and do not care for the problems of the poorest.

I'm not saying Brexit will improve conditions for those already suffering but many working classes have stood up and voted to have their
Voices finally heard.
People are moaning about their precious holidays being affected. They want to remain because they don't want their living standards to be lowered.

Many voted leave because they are hoping that in the future their living standards may no longer be constantly in the gutter.

It will be nice to watch the likes of JRM and Johnson being held to account for their lies that a no deal is fine.

They won't be held to account, they'll just blame the EU or immigrants or the BBC or the BoE or something else and people will be stupid enough to believe them. They haven't suffered any backlash from Leave voters so far for all the lies they have told.

The best case we have for remaining right now is preservation of the status quo.

The status quo for many people right now is shit.

Those 2 statements don’t contradict each other.

Remainers don’t “have” to do anything but until we do, we are no better than the “I’m alright, Jack” Brexit brigade.

We need to end austerity and radically overhaul our approach and attitude to state intervention. And that won’t happen with a Tory government ruled by the ERG.

Many voted leave because they are hoping that in the future their living standards may no longer be constantly in the gutter.

And what about all the well off pensioners who voted Leave? As I understand it the evidence is quite weak that the poor voted Leave in much greater numbers that the well off. Look at the democratic, the young (who would have very little wealth) overwhelmingly voter remain.

They want to remain because they don't want their living standards to be lowered.

Yes that is precisely why I voted remain. Because living solely on benefits in a poor area of the country with a disabled child is bad enough already. Not having the support services my child needs because of money is bad enough already. The waiting lists for services he needs are bad enough already.

I do not need to be worrying about his medication not being available or not being able to afford to feed is properly. I have enough to worry about trying to get my son the best start in life against massive disadvantages. And his sister too.

Funnily enough the people who bang on about the 'bumps in the road' being worth it are a lot better off than I am.

I’m pretty sure we don’t have 17.5m pensioners.

Yes that group over indexed in Brexit. So did large swathes of the North.

South East inc London - remain. Remind me where the wealth is?

Walkingdeadfangirl
When we leave the EU we could have frictionless trade with the EU &/or the rest of the world
Can we really? only by staying in the SM and CU, we lose 50 FTA when we leave the EU, inc the one just signed with Japan.
What i do agree with is that UK exporters will have to work a lot harder instead of relying on an easy EU market, that will bring benefits for some sectors, negatives will be uk firms moving to EU in order to keep access and how long before Airbus, PSA and BMW move to the mainland.....?

Given how hard it is to leave now, in ten years time there is no guarantee we will be allowed to leave, or indeed it could be to late to leave
Its not hard to leave, we just want to keep all the benefits plus the Ni issue, we could have gone for a no deal brexit 2.5 years ago instead of now.

Why not? (rejoin EU if things go badly)
current EU rules would mean adopting Euro, Schengen, no rebate or opt outs... even i wouldn't want to rejoin on those terms, we will never rejoin.

No one knows the future but the social and economic damage of this very rushed exit from the EU is going to have consequence, the first is NHS and health workers leaving, some hospitals have had most of their EU nurses leave (in one hospital 100 nurses) the emergency is now, this hospital stated patients have died because of lack of staff, which is obvious, a new immigration policy in 18months is too late.

But many of the poorest also voted leave. It was their choice too.

They say if you kick a dog enough it will eventually bite. This is how and why the leave vote won in a large majority of cases.