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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask what we have to look forward to after March 29th 2019

389 replies

Bearbehind · 18/12/2018 18:40

It turns out Theresa May’s definition of ‘soverignity and democracy’ is to postpone a democratic vote, not allow anyone except her to change their mind and generally run to clock down until her deal is the only option.

So what do people think about that?

What are the benefits we have to look forward to when we leave the EU given it turns out ‘they don’t actually need is more than we need them’ after all?

What are we doing this for?

(And for those who want to ignore Brexit, don’t read this thread. Equally, this is the biggest thing this country has ever faced in most of our generation so please don’t banish this to the Brexit section)

OP posts:
Original poster
Bearbehind · 18/12/2018 21:48

It really doesn’t make sense to confine this discussion to one small corner when it’s the biggest issue facing our country russia

The Brexit threads are the same people, I know, I’ve been on there for over 2 years.

I wanted a wider view but it’s the same old shit.

2 posters on this thread have argued the toss over ‘state aid’ for UK industries but neither has the first clue what that actually means.

Neither can give an example of which industry and what support they are referring to.

That’s what I’m saying about the fact that surely people must begin to question themselves at some point.

I literally can’t imagine insisting something is true when I can’t begin to think of an example.

OP posts:
Moussemoose · 18/12/2018 21:56

There was a thread recently where the OP asked for reasons why remain was a good option. Loads of posters, wrote detailed responses as to why remain seemed like a good idea to them.

Many of the posters had made those comments before, but still they posted again.

Leave posters won't post because they have done it before even thought they have a great many well researched, well referenced reasons.

They have killer arguments that have been ignored and dismissed. These brilliant arguments that defy response are now hidden from view because posters were mean to leavers. Such a shame.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 18/12/2018 21:57

formula that is patronising bollocks to apply to this situation - not to mention incredibly offensive to people who are grieving.

OP posts:
Russiawithlove · 18/12/2018 21:58

If you've been on the threads for 2 years I give you points for endurance if nothing else.

That is your choice. Others do not want to eat and sleep Brexit.

It's a week before Christmas. People need to have some lightheartedness.
You cannot force people to discuss it just because you want to.

FormulaFor · 18/12/2018 21:59

Brexit is often referred to as a divorce. You seem like someone grieving to me. I would offer a hug, I am sure you would push me away in anger.

Original poster
Bearbehind · 18/12/2018 22:00

I’m not forcing anyone to discuss anything russia, if you have better things to do, feel free to leave.

I’m pointing out that a lot of Leavers have taken the time to argue black is white rather than give examples of black or white things (and no, that’s not racist either).

OP posts:
Moussemoose · 18/12/2018 22:01

Well don't eat, sleep or click on it then.

It is not that hard to ignore.

Cheeseislife · 18/12/2018 22:12

Rewind back to before the referendum, what did we have to look forward to then??

This country was screwed in so many ways, Brexit just gives a handy excuse for it coming to a head.

seventhgonickname · 18/12/2018 22:14

I see no need to produce cohesive arguements to back up 'soundbites' that I neither made or bought into.
We originally in 1972 had a referendum to join the common market,all well and good.We did not have a vote on the other treaties,Lisbon being the latest that brought us the United EU consept.
Also financial accounts are very dodgy.As soon as anyone asks what we pay into the EU we get conflicting numbers and audit always shows that the books are not balanced
I know that they do not want to loose our money and want to use us to dissuade other countries from leaving but that is not in the spirit of article 50.
I think the EU started as a good idea but as it got bigger has become more corrupt and unable to flex to meet the different needs of different countries who are not at all similar no matter how much Germany and France wish it.
So yes I voted leave.I am not a racist,I work in the NHS so we couldn't run without people from other countries but have to point out that most most non British Staff are from outside the EU.
Maybe I am thick,remainders seem to think all leavers are but have observed that most of the vitriol flows one way which is not helping in any persuasive arguements.
Above whether to book flights in March no body really talks about Brexit much in real life above marveling at how our MPs have dicked around for 2 years and achieved less than nothing .

Walkingdeadfangirl · 18/12/2018 22:22

I’m pointing out that a lot of Leavers have taken the time to argue black is white rather than give examples of black or white things

Completely disingenuous comment. Its possible for remainers to state detailed facts because they are in the past. A detailed list of facts cannot be produced by leavers because it is in the future. So by definition their answers are of a different nature. That does not invalidate them.

Could remainers give us a detailed list of facts about the EU over the next ten years, with proof they are true?

jasjas1973 · 18/12/2018 22:23

@Russiawithlove - the association i made was that you are perhaps a James Bond fan

therewillbetime · 18/12/2018 22:31

The person who started this thread makes the statement that all racists voted leave just after making racial assumptions about somebody whose name includes the word ‘Russia’.

God give me strength.

Russiawithlove · 18/12/2018 22:31

@jasjas1973 my username was picked because of the film and parents nationality. Was meant to be jokey.
Never occurred to me that it could be awkward on a Brexit thread haha.

Not changing it though.

ChristmasTwatteryDoesMyHeadIn · 18/12/2018 22:35

seventhgonickname thank you, I appreciate your response.

I disagree, but you’ve thought about it and are able to explain why, and that’s new.

therewillbetime · 18/12/2018 22:36

Absolutely moussemoose. I was very undecided about whether to leave and have tried to keep an open mind throughout this process. What I have found most shocking and upsetting are the racial slurs made by remainers to leavers. What they fail to realise is the racial behaviour they purport to abhor is actually often stemming from their own mouths.

jasjas1973 · 18/12/2018 22:42

@Russiawithlove Good on you!

Walkingdeadfangirl

Could remainers give us a detailed list of facts about the EU over the next ten years, with proof they are true?

I ve considered this before... i guess the difference is that remaining in the EU gives us options, so firstly we know that staying in the EU means we have continued frictionless trade etc etc BUT obviously that could change, as could others, there could be an EU army, turkey could renew steps to join, we could lose our veto etc etc but at any stage we could leave if things got bad.

however, once we leave and bearing in mind a heck of lot hasn't turned out as leavers thought, if things get really bad for the UK, thats it, there is no revisiting and going back to the EU.

As a commentator said earlier today "this is a world economic event, no one (5th richest economy) has left the worlds largest trading bloc after 40 years of close cooperation"

I thought "I wonder why?"

KennDodd · 18/12/2018 22:46

I don't think we have much to look forward thanks to Leave voters. The country is torn in two because of the wretched Tory referendum, this is going to take decades to heal. People are deluded if they think this will settle down after March, the tensions haven't even started yet, just wait until the pain really starts. I think when the blue passports start arriving are young people will be really angry, rightly so, we will have taken away their rights to live and work in Europe and given them a shitty blue passport instead.

Jaffacakebeast · 18/12/2018 22:50

And before I get jumped on again, not every leave voter is racist, but every racist voted Leave. @Bearbehind

So so wrong! I know 2 very rich, very racist men who voted remain. As did their whole families. I see the the divide (80% of the tome) more financially. Poor ppl voted leave

JellyBears · 18/12/2018 22:51

It’ll be fine, stop reading the Daily bloody mail!!!

DBML · 18/12/2018 22:51

The only thing that I can be sure of is that the country voted to leave. Regardless of your personal view of what leaving can offer us, it is important that the result of a democratic vote is upheld.
I voted to leave and I would still vote to leave. To be honest I’m not expecting huge changes for a few years. Supermarkets and shops may have to raise prices slightly, but they will also always have to be competitive. I can’t imagine the EU not wanting to trade with us and I haven’t taken a European vacation in over 12 years anyway (I’m a long haul traveller). The pound will suffer against the dollar short term, which is always a bummer for me, but it’ll climb back up a bit over time. Some businesses will flourish, others will not...depends on the business.
I suppose no one CAN tell you exactly the benefits right now...because we’ve not done this before and don’t know. But likewise, remain can’t say with certainty that the sky will come crashing down, as again they don’t really know.
Predictions I find are rarely trustworthy in cases like this. We have nothing to do but wait and see.
I’m in my thirties by the way, so not everyone who voted to leave has died off yet ;)

Jaffacakebeast · 18/12/2018 22:51

I’m looking 4ward to game of thrones btw, and hoping eu law module and that part of finial exam being removed from law degree

DBML · 18/12/2018 22:53

Oh and I come from a multi racial (and I mean ‘multi’ racial) background...and voting leave had nothing to do with racism or bigotry.

seventhgonickname · 18/12/2018 23:50

Thank you Christmas,lots of us disagree on this and I am an ordinary person not an expert but I appreciate your reading and replying .Refreshing on a thread like this.
If the politicians could have behaved like this we might have got somewhere.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 19/12/2018 00:23

jasjas1973
the difference is that remaining in the EU gives us options
Leaving the EU gives us more options.
staying in the EU means we have continued frictionless trade etc etc
When we leave the EU we could have frictionless trade with the EU &/or the rest of the world.
at any stage we could leave if things got bad
Given how hard it is to leave now, in ten years time there is no guarantee we will be allowed to leave, or indeed it could be to late to leave.
if things get really bad for the UK, that is it, there is no revisiting and going back to the EU
Why not?

So not much certainty on the future by remainers then.