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Original poster

To bring this up with school - DS accused of 'rape'.

148 replies

MadMumx1 · 18/12/2018 11:34

DS, in Yr4, was a little upset last night and told me that a girl in his class has been horrible to him all day. One of the things he mentioned was she said that he'd 'raped' one of the girls in his class.

Cue me having to explain what it meant as he didn't know, which I really didn't want to have to do at age 8!

Obviously the girl didn't understand what it meant either but isn't this language at bit worrying at this age?

Considering bringing it up with school but not sure it's worth it?

OP posts:
thedancingbear · 18/12/2018 13:39

“We believe you” is thrown about as if it’s some kind of holy grail and if someone says the word rape their word is sacrosanct?

FFS. No-one has said that. The issue is merely that the starting point when someone says that they've been sexually assaulted is that they're probably telling the truth (ie. we believe them).

If you start from the proposition that prepubescent girls who claim to have been raped etc. are probably bullshitting - words fail me.

BertrandRussell · 18/12/2018 13:40

“Let’s not start getting to the state where an eight year old is automatically deemed a predator by virtue of them being a boy shall we?“

Can you please indicate which posts make this point? Thank you.

thedancingbear · 18/12/2018 13:40

However, I am afraid that sexual assaults happen all the time - even in primary schools, like it or not - and shouting girls down immediately is just mirroring what happens to us as adult women when we are sexually assaulted.

This. Exactly this.

DeepanKrispanEven · 18/12/2018 13:42

starcrossedseahorse, you seem to be another one who is equating this girl with the alleged victim. On the one hand, you have the possibility that a generally quiet and gentle 8 year old raped or sexually assaulted another child in school without the staff knowing anything about it and with no complaint from the girl in question, just an allegation from another child who apparently did nothing about it at the time and hasn't seen fit to tell the staff. On the other hand, you have the possibility that the girl making the accusation doesn't really understand what she is saying and that OP's son is telling the truth.

Which possibility do you think is more likely?

DeepanKrispanEven · 18/12/2018 13:45

The issue is merely that the starting point when someone says that they've been sexually assaulted is that they're probably telling the truth (ie. we believe them)

But no-one in this case has said that she has been sexually assaulted. One child has alleged that another was raped in circumstances where it is at least uncertain whether she even knows what the word means. Completely different set of circumstances.

Tanith · 18/12/2018 13:55

Younger children who sexually abuse others are imitating behaviour they have seen or had done to them. That's why it's a safeguarding concern for the attacker as well as the victim (or should be! I'm aware of the recent TES report).

8 year old boy who have not themselves been abused are extremely unlikely to commit rape.

5foot5 · 18/12/2018 14:01

It is still concerning that an 8 year old knows the word rape. She is 8, not 12. She shouldn't be reading things with the word rape in them, nor should she be routinely watching programmes where the word is used.

Oh come on, they don't live in a bubble. She could easily have seen or heard the word without there being any negligence on the parent's part.

I remember when DD was about that age she was passing through the living room when the early evening news was on and overheard a headline that a woman in Stockport. (When I saw her puzzled expression I braced myself for the ensuing question but, weirdly, the question when it came was "Where is Stockport?")

In a similar situation I can imagine a parent making some vague reply that the girl didn't really understand and then used incorrectly.

5foot5 · 18/12/2018 14:02

.. that a woman in Stockport had been raped, is what I meant to say!

HestiaParthenos · 18/12/2018 14:19

So now we need to start assuming that all boys are potential rapists

I am not a native speaker, but I thought the word "potential" meant in English what it means in other languages. Hmm

Which boys, in your opinion, should be considered potential rapists? Only those from lower class families? Those with specific religions? Those whose skulls have a specific form with a bump in the rapist area, as defined by a phrenologist?

Or should we just assume that no boy has the potential to rape and all girls who say that boys raped them must therefore be liars?

YerAuntFanny · 18/12/2018 14:24

As someone who works in safeguarding and has young children I really don't understand why it's such a bad thing that an 8 year old has heard/seen/knows the word "rape".

Although it is unlikely that anything appropriate has happened in this particular case it would be much easier if children were taught in a more open and honest way about the good as well as the bad because it would make it clearer to them and us as adults when something had actually happened.

If they are aware of and understand the words then they are less likely to throw them about as something hurtful in an innocent context.

Missingstreetlife · 18/12/2018 14:25

I think 8 or before, is a good age to learn about consent if they haven't already, pants campaign on nspcc website is good.
Children do hear these words, or perhaps something happened to someone this child knows.
School should have a safeguarding lead and gently investigate this in the interests of all the children.

HestiaParthenos · 18/12/2018 14:26

It is still concerning that an 8 year old knows the word rape. She is 8, not 12. She shouldn't be reading things with the word rape in them

So, do you not read regular newspapers for adults, or do you burn them after reading? Lock them away?

My parents kept old newspapers for re-using the paper and I was an easily bored child.

I don't want to imagine what might have happened had anyone bothered to find out what words I knew the meaning of at 8. Hmm

I also watched TV in the mornings when my parents were still asleep. But I am sure you keep the TV and all computers and smartphones in a locked cupboard.

HestiaParthenos · 18/12/2018 14:29

... what do you do about the newspapers being sold in public? A violent crime in the are is likely to make the headlines. Do you cover your child's eyes when you walk past? (I wouldn't assume you'd let an 8 year old walk to school unsupervised. No way of knowing what they might read.)

glamorousgrandmother · 18/12/2018 14:32

A LOT of posters have assumed that the girl is lying.

I don't think anyone has said she is lying but a lot of people have suggested she doesn't know what the word means. I think the most likely explanation is that she has heard the word and someone has told it means 'a man hurting a woman' and she has used it in this way (although the other girl hasn't actually complained of anything). Obviously, further investigation into what actually happened and what the word means are required.

katekat383 · 18/12/2018 14:36

Oh oh. The pack is circling again. Hateful behaviour towards the OP.

fartfacemcfartfaceface · 18/12/2018 14:48

What @SummerGems said - and in absolute fucking spade loads.

EleanorShellstropper · 18/12/2018 14:48

From the OP it sounds like the girl said he raped another child, not a girl claiming she had been assaulted.

It is a huge safeguarding issue, for a number of reasons, including, is the girl who said it being abused, and yes, could the accused have assaulted the alleged victim. None of us can say what actually happened, but the school NEED to investigate it, to stop anything slipping through cracks.

I wouldn't be happy without a face to face meeting with the school's safeguarding officer (There will always be one at school, in case the lead safeguarding officer isn't there at the time, so don't let them fob you off, saying they're busy. At our school, on one day a few years ago, none of the safeguarding officers were there so they arranged for another school's SO to be on call, in case of any concerns within the school...and that was for one day....!)

OP, I think both your son, and the accuser, have been given unfair accusations on this post. Ultimately, though, it needs to be sorted before the end of term, regardless of what happened.

RB68 · 18/12/2018 14:55

Fundamentally speak to school, say you are not sure why this is being said or what the circumstances are around it but all the kids need to be spoken to to understand what is going on - it could be as simple as this child has had rape explained as a man hurting a woman and so a boy hurting a girl is described in the same way. It could of course also be more than that - none of it should be ignored and all circumstances considered in talking to the children.

Sometimes trying to explain something like rape to an 8 yr old who has overheard the news etc backfires when not enough detail is given to "protect their innocence".

This is why I dislike 24 hr news and news not at traditional times etc. We were not allowed to watch the news until we were at least 10 and back then rape was referred to as attacked often as not. I think TV News has a responsibility to consider the potential audience when choosing words to describe news items at different times of day

HestiaParthenos · 18/12/2018 15:22

It is a huge safeguarding issue, for a number of reasons, including, is the girl who said it being abused, and yes, could the accused have assaulted the alleged victim. None of us can say what actually happened, but the school NEED to investigate it, to stop anything slipping through cracks.

Well, I do think it is a bit silly to panic about a child who can read knowing the correct word to describe a crime that is quite often reported in the news.

But sure. Someone needs to talk to the girl anyway, the "being horrible" to OPs son being the most likely real issue to sort out here.

Avegemitesandwich · 18/12/2018 15:24

I don't think an 8 year old having heard the word 'rape' is necessarily a concern. Its not 'sexualised language' its a crime that is talked about quite widely in the media that a child could have easily heard in the radio or TV or read in a newspaper. It sometimes comes alongside 'murder' so an 8 year old would know it was 'bad'.

However, the teachers absolutely need to know that this word is being bandied around and get to the bottom of it all.

abacucat · 18/12/2018 15:46

I am pretty sure I knew what rape was when I was 8 years old. I knew the facts of life and heard the word rape in the news and on the radio. I do think some parents are ridiculously over protective of their kids.

starcrossedseahorse · 18/12/2018 15:58

Deepan I hope that the innocent scenario is what has happened. Of course I do!

All I said was that we should listen to children when they tell us things and get to the heart of the issue as soon as possible. I blamed no one and accused no one. I wrote in general terms. Why this has upset anyone I do not know. Confused

Absentwomen · 18/12/2018 16:10

What @fartfacemcfartfaceface said in fucking shovel loads about what @Summergems has said.

OP,

You know your son. I hope the school has responded to your concerns. Please do update.

starcrossedseahorse · 18/12/2018 16:13

I thought SummerGems post both dismissive and rude but hey ho.

geekone · 18/12/2018 16:13

I have a DS who’s 8. He knows what rape is, he knows what sex is and he knows what consent is and it’s importance. It is for many of the reasons in this post that kids should be taught these things and words and meanings early. If the OP’s son knew what Rape meant he might of gone to the teacher and spoke about what was said. If the little girls knew what it meant they might not have said it. Innocence is not a thing that is lost with knowledge if anything knowledge helps protect innocence for a bit longer.

My DS read the word rape in a news paper headline he asked what it meant. He had asked what sex was when he was 7 so I just explained the rape was sex where the person didn’t consent and said no and it was forced. Maybe the little girl asked her mum/dad what rape was any they said bumping or touching someone without consent.