Why the the leavers so scared of a second vote?

[StrumALum]

I don't get it.

The leavers were fed some lies, that much is obvious.

What I don't get though is that if the leavers are so sure of themselves then why are they so worried about a second vote? If it's 'the will of the people' then it will be the same outcome anyway.

Or are they panicking because now the lies (like the bus) have been exposed, people are now more clued up and they were relying on people not being clued up to get the vote through in the first place?

So if leave won in a second referendum would remain be then asking for a third referendum.....

redcarbluecar - As a remainer, I'd be afraid of a second referendum because I don't think people have grown up, reflected and examined a new set of facts.

Exactly. I've been trying to say this. I've put my hands up and admitted i don't feel informed enough to vote. I wont be the only one. But the OP's best answer to this is just go on the internet or for the bewildered to self select themselves out of a future vote. And still they don't understand why a lot of people might be wary of a second fiasco vote. God help us

@CiderBrains , if we crash out, the niceties of political debate will be the last thing you will be worried about.
If we leave, we have to leave with a Withdrawal Agreement and a transition period. Like the one the Maybot has got. Crash out is a fucking disaster.

It isn't the OP's job to set out the 'facts'. That is the government's job.
But if there was another vote it should be outsourced. The government are not capable of it.

So if leave won in a second referendum would remain be then asking for a third referendum...

No, I don't think so. The idea that it would just be run over and over again, as Leavers like to suggest, is a straw man.

I would accept a second leave vote. I'd still not like it, but I'd accept it.

UnnecessaryFennel

A trading block can include, common standards, common working conditions, common research it doesn't have to include tariffs that harm the poorest on the planet.

Is that the Amber Rudd who can be removed by the electorate at the next election? If she had been appointed after losing an election you would have a direct comparison but you don't, she is still an elected member of parliament not someone who lost an election the got appointed to a more powerful unelected position as Paton was.

Which prominent leavers were they?

Would you like to address my other points?

I considered many things perhaps you could tell us why you voted remain?

I voted leave and would do again. I don't think it should be up to the public to decide, that's what We pay our elected politicians to do, they represent us, we told them we wanted to leave, for many reasons not just the bus, they all agreed to hold the referendum, they don't like the decision the voters took.

But we can’t possibly know all the facts OP. Nobody will know all the facts about what Brexit will look like and the true impact of it, until it finally happens.
The public should never be allowed a vote on this kind of thing - so I don’t think we should have another one. We should never have had a first one.

Don’t be daft Namechange. You wouldn’t have got a brick through the widow. Pathetic argument.

We pay our elected politicians to do, they represent us, we told them we wanted to leave

The UK isn’t a direct democracy.

FaFoutis - It isn't the OP's job to set out the 'facts'.

She's based her entire thread on her opinion that there should be another vote given how simple and straight forward an informed vote would be. I'm saying it's not simple and people are not informed. She's not living in this country. Perhaps if she was it would be easier to see why people (on BOTH sides) are wary of going through it all again.

Sorry. I've said OP is a she. Might be a he.

I’m not sure how ‘you’d just ask for a third election if you lost again’ can be called a straw man 🤔

Remainers May accept a second vote to leave (although I doubt it) but if the second vote was to remain then realistically its 1-1 and do you really think that the leavers would shrug their shoulders and carry on!

They’d have far more reason to demand a third vote than remainers currently have to demand a second ...

Voted leave would vote leave again.

Remainers insulting brexiters is pathetic

We pay our elected politicians to do, they represent us, we told them we wanted to leave

No, we didn't. 37% of the electorate did, and that was on the back of a Leave campaign riddled with illegal conduct.

I voted Remain because I believe that being in the EU is good for the UK, and that being a member of the largest trading bloc on earth, made up of our closest neighbours, is financially and culturally beneficial for us. I think that things like FOM are, on balance, positives not negatives, given that EU migrants are net contributors to our economy. I work in both the NHS and in academia and I see, on a daily basis, how important membership of the EU is to both of those, in terms of staffing, funding and exchange of ideas/research/good practice, and how that benefits patients.

I do not believe that the EU is a perfect institution. I'm quite sure there is waste, inefficiency, etc. but the difference is that I would want to stay and change/influence those things from the inside. I understand that the issues with our country are due to domestic policy decisions, not to the interference of the EU. The EU has been used as a scapegoat to distract from the incompetence and arrogance of our own - elected - leaders. This has been happening for decades and we have become so used to it that we fail to use critical thinking any longer - it's so much easier just to point at the EU than consider our failings closer to home.

I do not think there is any chance that a medium-sized economy such as ours will have anything like the influence and power on the world stage if we 'go it alone' than as part of the EU. That's not talking the country down, it's just being pragmatic.

I think leaving will have a negative impact on our economy for years to come, and as someone who works with vulnerable people I can see that may will not be able to cope with a downturn/contraction in the economy. Many are on a knife-edge already.

I am fearful, frankly, of the UK becoming more inward-looking, more parochial, if we leave the EU. I love this country, I want it to thrive - I think the best chance of that is by remaining in a political, economic and cultural bloc of 500 million people, not by isolating ourselves. Brexit simply makes no sense to me at all.

No, we didn't. 37% of the electorate did, and that was on the back of a Leave campaign riddled with illegal conduct.

It was the biggest British vote ever. It had 72% turnout. 52% voted leave. To put it into perspective, Blair’s 1997 “landslide” was only 43% of the vote and even less of the electorate as a whole.

Putting it in terms of the entire election is dishonest and misrepresentative. Especially as Remainers have spent the last 2 years whining about people who weren’t clever enough to vote. If part of the electorate didn’t feel informed enough or didn’t care enough to vote then why should they. By not voting they agreed to hand over the decision to citizens who did. Pretending they were all remainers is dishonest.

And both leave and remain have been fined by the electoral commission. Both leave and remain lied (remember Nick Clegg telling us an EU army was a dangerous fantasy).

Love the idea that allowing another vote (esp in context of an advisory referendum) is undemocratic.

If Britain had followed that path in 1710 and not had the second general election, the Whigs would be in power to this day.

Funny that those who voted Leave (and would still vote Leave) are the ones who most strongly argue for no vote. But deny that there is a link...theory of mind clearly not a strong point.

Helmetbymidnight

The funny ones are the ones who go - ‘well, remain lied too’ as if that’s a valid reason NOT to have a second referendum.

So what "truths" will be put forward by the remain groups?
Whatever they put forward it will only be a partial story, followed by you are all to thick to understand everything.

This will be lauded by remainers that are too thick to understand that they have also just been insulted by the EU.

UnnecessaryFennel

And what independent research did you do to gain your belief?

How would do you think we can influence ?

And you voted for an unknown because you want it to change but don't know how or when it will change?

I remember when the country voted cons and then t May called another general election only 1 yr later!

What a fecking outage. Respect the will of the people - How undemocratic was that. I’ll never vote again.

No, we didn't. 37% of the electorate did, and that was on the back of a Leave campaign riddled with illegal conduct.

This is a strawman, both labour and cons ran with a manifesto of honouring the vote.

I would prefer we didn’t have a second referendum (and I voted remain). We had a General Election in 2017 at which we were able to vote for a Government to deliver the deal... that we did and a Government was formed (albeit it wasn’t the most convincing result).

However, we appear to reached an impasse. I can’t see how a deal will be passed in the Commons.... so unless we have another GE (which won’t happen due to fixed term Parliament act) or we crash out (something which would likely end in chaos and for which there’s definitely no majority in Parliament and the country), I think that unless there’s real progress on a obtaining cross-party majority for a deal that the EU will sign up to by the end of January, Article 50 should be revoked and another referendum called....

There should be 3 options.... remain, leave with Gvt deal, leave with no deal, and voters give a 1st and 2nd preference. The option with lowest vote is eliminated and 2nd preferences allocated to the remaining two. Whichever gets the most 1st and 2nd preference votes wins.

The UK isn’t a direct democracy.

What that poster suggested wasn’t a direct democracy. Direct democracy is where every issue is voted on by the populace.

A representative democracy doesn’t mean our elected representatives get to ignore us though. We engage with them telling them what we want in a variety of ways from voting on manifestos to referenda. We give them an overall view of what we want, they are supposed to sort out the details. The referendum is perfectly compatible with that.

StrumALum

leavers don't want another vote because leavers want

may's deal
no deal
remain

splitting the leavers vote.

what should happen is
may's deal
no deal
re negotiate.