Why the the leavers so scared of a second vote?

[StrumALum]

I don't get it.

The leavers were fed some lies, that much is obvious.

What I don't get though is that if the leavers are so sure of themselves then why are they so worried about a second vote? If it's 'the will of the people' then it will be the same outcome anyway.

Or are they panicking because now the lies (like the bus) have been exposed, people are now more clued up and they were relying on people not being clued up to get the vote through in the first place?

because 1 have you seen how they are treating us

Oh dear

they would charge us extra i am sure

And ditto

I didn’t listen to any so called lies. Decided years ago that we needed to leave the EU.

Laiste

I'm sure you have access to the internet don't you and can read.

Not scared, I just believe in democracy and the remoaners want to ignore democracy because they didn’t get their way.

The EU looks like a car-crash at the moment with all the chaos in France, Holland and now Belgium. Brexit might end up being a godsend.

Do leave voters have all the catchphrases: project fear, remoaners, 'the will of the people' etc, etc ?

Are there any remain catchphrases for me to use (instead of actually thinking about it)?

Yes. And i'm here telling you i don't understand the 'simple facts'. It's opinion and prediction based as far as i can see.

You're the one saying it's simple to have an informed vote. Explain how you'd put an informed vote to the people.

Good job we've never had civil unrest or IRA/UVF terrorism then .... no, wait.

JellyBears Why don't you want a new vote now more facts are known? Why not?

The Remainers I know are just worried that they won't be able to fill their BTLs with Eastern Europeans and the price of their second/third/fourth property will fall and that they will have to pay more for their nannies and won't be able to rely on paying the minimum for some poor girl from Europe. It's just as much self-interest from Remainers as they accuse Brexiteers of!

My point is: i don't think a second vote will be any more informed than the last because i don't believe it is possible to do that. I believe it would be devisive and another big costly mistake.

Well if you don't understand the basic simple facts you really shouldn't have voted for something so important should you.

No, weetabix, remainers are saying nothing of the sort.

The situation, however is that - as has been pointed out upthread - Leavers voted Leave for a variety of reasons. There was no consensus as to what 'Leave' actually meant. That was the first problem (I'm not even going to bother going into all the appalling behaviour of the various Leave campaigns). Then, A50 was triggered far too early, the negotiations were conducted (on the UK's side) by a bunch of arrogant lazy arseholes like David Davis, UK politicians slagged off the EU during negotiations at any possible opportunity and, most importantly, we CONTINUALLY demanded all the benefits of being in the club whilst still sticking two fingers up at the club.

It's not a case of being 'in too deep', not in the way you mean. I strongly want to remain, but I could, perhaps, have been persuaded that leaving would be ok if it had been conducted, from the first moment, completely differently. But we have a government and a media culture that is unsurpassed in its arrogance, insensitivity and hubris and we are utterly fucked because of it.

The appalling state we are now in is nothing to do with how previous laws or treaties were negotiated with the EU, and everything to do with the complete lack of integrity of our politicians and media. They have preyed on people's insecurities and concerns for their own ends, shifting blame to the EU/immigrants/'remoaners' at every opportunity.

And it's worked brilliantly.

Eu is not being a bully. It's looking after the interests of its members, which is kind of the whole point of it

@StrumALung because I don’t :)

StrumALum - Well if you don't understand the basic simple facts you really shouldn't have voted for something so important should you.

And there you go. How are you going to sort out who gets to vote in this amazing second vote of yours?

The truly undemocratic option here would be to push forward without a second ref, given what has potentially changed regarding the so-called 'will of the people' and what is now known as a result of negotiations etc. There is too much at stake to just steam ahead regardless.

Fwiw the majority of the people I know who voted leave all did it because of immigration concerns or the NHS lie. They have been suspiciously quiet since - this actually gives me some hope that they now realise they swallowed lies and regret what happened. I do also know of two teachers who voted leave because they fancied a change. They did no research, they just thought it would be interesting to see what happened. It's scary the way people think sometimes.

I'm still waiting for the simple basic facts to be put here. You obviously cant do it.

Democracy doesn’t mean there can only be one vote. Otherwise we would be sticking to the referendum in 1975 that voted us in to the EU. Sticking to a government or policy for ever without consulting the electorate is not democracy. Would it be democratic if the government abolished general elections, because, after all, we chose the MPs we have now, it’s the will of the people? What right is there for people to want to change that choice? Just replace them as they die off.

The Remainers I know are just worried that they won't be able to fill their BTLs with Eastern Europeans and the price of their second/third/fourth property will fall and that they will have to pay more for their nannies and won't be able to rely on paying the minimum for some poor girl from Europe.

Oh, do fuck off, dear.

Do we get points for posters like @mothertruck3r assuming all Remain voters are wealthy. Perhaps a little trip to Remain supporting Liverpool might open your eyes.

Look, i don't give a shit whether you voted Leave or Remain. Just avoid No Deal.

I think Krugman is spot on with this

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1074315011659575297.html

Leavers voted Leave for a variety of reasons.
And remainers voted for a variety of reasons.

I agree A50 was triggered way too early and yes, the politicians are too blame for this absolute pig's ear.

I think remainers are saying that we can never leave because it has been made too difficult to leave.

If remain had won would they be happy now to have a second referendum? 🤔

StrumALum
Sorry I missed that.

I'll tell you why I voted leave

Failed politicians, who have had to resign , due to corruption or fraud, from elected office in their own country being appointed unelected commissioners with more power than than the job they had at home e.g. Peter Mandelson

Politicians voted out of power at home but doing same as above eg Chris Paton

The fact that the EU subsidizes it's own citizens while millions across the globe starve because the EU adds tariffs to their products

All the times auditors refused to sign off the EUs accounts

MEPs not having to produce receipts for expenses

CAP

Austerity which makes our government look free spending e.g. Greece

Protectionism

The fact it has been made so hard to leave.

The unelected parliament having less power than the appointed commissioners.

I was tempted to vote remain and didn't make a final decision til the voting booth as I was worried about the immediate recession and emergency budget that would follow the vote, not leaving but the vote, that we were told were inevitable and were facts.

So that's why I voted leave

Finally all through the campaign remain said leave meant leave and there would be no customs union, no benefits of the EU so people did know what leave meant.

Labelling people as idiots and uneducated for voting leave is an insult, I studied accounting and economics at university, got a first and did my research, I'm more likely than ever to vote leave now but wouldn't admit that to remainers or pollsters because of the aggression and bullying of many of them