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Original poster

Why the the leavers so scared of a second vote?

725 replies

StrumALum · 16/12/2018 15:27

I don't get it.

The leavers were fed some lies, that much is obvious.

What I don't get though is that if the leavers are so sure of themselves then why are they so worried about a second vote? If it's 'the will of the people' then it will be the same outcome anyway.

Or are they panicking because now the lies (like the bus) have been exposed, people are now more clued up and they were relying on people not being clued up to get the vote through in the first place?

OP posts:
mothertruck3r · 18/12/2018 14:41

If UKIP had MPs in the end they would have shown what kind of people they are. Just like the party itself has shown itself to be full of racists. Let people speak and listen to what they say.

What, like the Labour party and all it's racists?

Mistigri · 18/12/2018 15:19

Why are (some) remainers so scared of democracy?

How can voting more equal less democracy?

Was Theresa May acting undemocratically when she called a general election in 2017 having already had one in 2015?

Personally I greatly prefer representative democracy to direct democracy so I'm not a people's vote fan - but the idea that one referendum = democratic whereas two referendums = undemocratic is plainly utter bilge.

BorisBogtrotter · 18/12/2018 15:27

"Like the Labour party and all it's racists?"

I'd like you to provide me concrete examples of Labour party racism.

At the moment the antisemitism investigation is about a hundred or so tweets with membership in the hundreds of thousands. Nothing has been proved to be directly connected yet.

I can however provide examples of senior Tory racism.

Watermelon smiles from the picanninines anyone?

bellinisurge · 18/12/2018 15:35

I beg to differ @BorisBogtrotter . Here's an example for all to see. At the launch of what is laughably called Labour's report into antisemitism, some anti Semitic twat started barracking a Jewish MP and Corbyn did fuck all about it. Even Chakrabati had the good grace to look horrified.

Surfskatefamily · 18/12/2018 15:40

It would defy democracy. I would have not trust in the system if a second vote was called every time someone didnt get the answer they want.
If it doesnt go your way then you are the minority opinion and need to accept it and move on.

AdamNichol · 18/12/2018 15:44

How can voting more equal less democracy?

It's about when. If you have an election, the winner forms a gov't and then does what they will for X years. The public then votes on this at the next election.
In this analogy, it's like holding an election. Party A wins, but Party B supporters demand an instant re-run.

If we do another referendum pre-Exit from EU, and remain wins, we'll have 1 all. What comes next, best out of 3? Rock paper scissors?

I'm not a leaver, but remain didn't win

Poppyinagreenfield · 18/12/2018 15:47

There is a brexit thread and this should be there

Mistigri · 18/12/2018 16:25

It's about when. If you have an election, the winner forms a gov't and then does what they will for X years. The public then votes on this at the next election.

So you're saying that it was undemocratic of Theresa May to call an election in 2017 when the next election should have been in 2020?

Of course you aren't saying that, because it would be a terrible argument, in the same way that it's a terrible argument to claim that it's undemocratic to rerun a referendum asking a vague question which was narrowly run by the side that cheated most.

(I don't want more referendums. I don't want any referendums. But not because I think one election is more or less democratic than another.)

Mistigri · 18/12/2018 16:26

Run = won (I'm a terrible proof reader)

BorisBogtrotter · 18/12/2018 16:29

"some anti Semitic twat started barracking a Jewish MP and Corbyn did fuck all about it. "

Was Corbyn in the room? Was he/or she a party member?

See this is where it falls down, you expect Corbyn to be responsible for other people's actions.

bellinisurge · 18/12/2018 16:31

He was in the room. It was a Labour Party member. I saw it live.

Justanotherlurker · 18/12/2018 16:32

How can voting more equal less democracy?

As AdamNichol but also because all sides said before the referendum of 23 June 2016 that it was the real thing, since then we've had a general election where both major parties committed to honouring the 2016 referendum result, and the vast majority of votes went to those two main parties, the fact some remainers wish to downplay that is no ones fault but theirs.

The government pamphlet for remain famously said "The government will implement what you decide".

No matter what fancy justifications they give, anyone arguing for a second vote simply wants another roll of the dice in vain hope of nullifying the previous vote.

To pretend that those who are advocating for a second ref to “just check” are doing it because they value democracy, is the same shit slinging as "you won get over it".

Justanotherlurker · 18/12/2018 16:36

See this is where it falls down, you expect Corbyn to be responsible for other people's actions.

I don't think we should be dragged down this road, but Corbyn is the leader of the party and has made a pretty poor showing of the rise of antisemitism which is an age old issue in the hard left.

The problems with Corbyn is a whole other thread that usually fills up quite quickly.

BorisBogtrotter · 18/12/2018 16:39

"but Corbyn is the leader of the party and has made a pretty poor showing of the rise of antisemitism which is an age old issue in the hard le"

Right, but the EVIDENCE of the rise of antisemitism is a some tweets and the actions of a few people, who are yet to be confirmed as members.

There is a lot of political expediency aimed at Corbyn and antisemitism, especially by those on the right, who are allied with Orban, and those who have made antisemitic slurs about Soros and others. There are also a lot of very tenuous links directly with Corbyn that are massively blown out of proportion.

Justanotherlurker · 18/12/2018 16:43

Right, but the EVIDENCE of the rise of antisemitism is a some tweets and the actions of a few people, who are yet to be confirmed as members.

Only to his most loyal followers, and looks like another Pro EU, Pro Corbyn (never mind the mental gymnastics) has been flushed out.

I mean you have Labour Against Anti-Semitism saying things like: ‘Instead of tackling anti-Semitism, Labour is trying to intimidate and punish those who are speaking out against it. We won’t be bullied and we won’t be silenced.’

No issue here, lets look at the tories ...

bellinisurge · 18/12/2018 16:48

But I saw him @BorisBogtrotter . At an important national Labour event

Helmetbymidnight · 18/12/2018 16:51

BREAKING: Government tells citizens to start preparing for no-deal Brexit as Cabinet agrees to ramp up preparations. Public service announcements to be made in the coming weeks. No10 spokesman: “These are the actions of a sensible government to ensure people are prepared.
Military personnel on standby.

Ok I’m supposed to believe people voted deliberately for this. More fool them, I just hope they suffer the consequences more than I will.

BorisBogtrotter · 18/12/2018 17:19

But you also have the Jewish voice for Labour providing support for Corbyn and other groups.

Ok give me evidence of there being significant levels of antisemitism in Labour?

BorisBogtrotter · 18/12/2018 17:25

OMG that quote comes from a request made by the party about people being told not to publicise the complaint.

You know, so that they can get a fair investigations hearing when diciplinary action is brought?

But no we should be able to go around making accusations about other party members with impunity, despite no investigations being made.

Lets have an example of how many complaints there have been about the 540,000 members of the Labour party before we go around making accusations of antisemitism being rife eh?

Helmetbymidnight · 18/12/2018 17:31

Well with corbyn, for me, the issues are what he hasn’t done- rather than what he has.
It’s the same approach as with Brexit, with everything. He’s not a leader, he’s a nothing man.
Has he unequvically condemned antisemitism? - most Jewish labour mps would say no- they are daily subjected to massive abuse which they believe to be from left wingers...did he act on cray-cray Ken livingstone? No he didn’t. Did he understand the implications of liking the antisemitic picture? no he didn’t. Etc etc.

WinterfellWench · 18/12/2018 17:34

6 words for you.

No.

Deal.

Brexit.

On.

The.

Way. Grin

BorisBogtrotter · 18/12/2018 17:39

Bring on No deal

I'm pretty safe from the impacts.

Loser leavers on the other hand will be up shit creek.

Suck it up, you voted for this shit show.

Notreallyhappy · 18/12/2018 17:40

Undemocratic... theres many people who didn't like the result of the general election being fed a load of bollocks by the political parties....
let's vote again then!!!! Until we get the answer we want....

Helmetbymidnight · 18/12/2018 17:41

Brexiteers are so thick that they put how excited they are by no deal all over fb. Confused
Chumps, if there are food/medical shortages, they are the first people to be in trouble - 3500 soldiers aren’t going to be their personal security guards.

BorisBogtrotter · 18/12/2018 17:44

".. theres many people who didn't like the result of the general election being fed a load of bollocks by the political parties..."

Yeah but they get to vote again every 5 years, or less, and what happens after the election is voted on in parliament meaningfully, this isn't.

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