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AIBU?

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Original poster

Why the the leavers so scared of a second vote?

725 replies

StrumALum · 16/12/2018 15:27

I don't get it.

The leavers were fed some lies, that much is obvious.

What I don't get though is that if the leavers are so sure of themselves then why are they so worried about a second vote? If it's 'the will of the people' then it will be the same outcome anyway.

Or are they panicking because now the lies (like the bus) have been exposed, people are now more clued up and they were relying on people not being clued up to get the vote through in the first place?

OP posts:
Augusta2012 · 18/12/2018 01:37

The People are fucking stupid. I wouldn't trust most to change a light bulb let alone make an important decision.

Lol. Said Hitler and Stalin and Kim Jong Un and the USSR and the Nazis and.....well. Just basically every evil person in history.

Augusta2012 · 18/12/2018 02:46

The system that we have is stacked against truly independents from running and even if the odd one manages to get elected they won't achieve anything in parliament against the major parties.

You do realize that if you had the system you want, the people who benefited most would be the far right? One in six English MPs would be UKIP under PR.

Augusta2012 · 18/12/2018 02:52

I don't. I think it's a terrible thing to have a vote and not use it. Your tendency to lump groups of people together and denounce them en bloc really weakens the quality of your arguments augusta.

Well then I wasn’t bloody talking to you was I? Duh!

MutantDisco · 18/12/2018 02:57

augusta you are ignorant of history.

Hitler used referendums/plebiscites to implement his policies in the 1930s.

Augusta2012 · 18/12/2018 03:12

augusta you are ignorant of history.

Hitler used referendums/plebiscites to implement his policies in the 1930s.

Are you serious? You are comparing. referendum which was held at the same time as a general election which only had Nazis on the ballot to our referendum? A referendum were Germans were rounded up and forced to vote for the Nazis?

And you’re accusing me of ignorance? I’ll be kind and assume you have some sort of learning disability because I can’t actually believe a functional adult would say something so stupid.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/1933/nov/13/secondworldwar.germany2

Augusta2012 · 18/12/2018 03:21

*where

Moussemoose · 18/12/2018 07:20

Allowing minority parties to have a say is what democracy is about. Surely as a leaver you are for a more democratic system.

If UKIP had MPs in the end they would have shown what kind of people they are. Just like the party itself has shown itself to be full of racists. Let people speak and listen to what they say.

Within FPTP the nutters are still there but hidden by the party cloak.

Referenda are easily used to manipulate the public and as a representative democracy we are not properly prepared for them. See all the bitching and whining when it becomes apparent then advisory referendum was advisory.

Moussemoose · 18/12/2018 07:21

The parties that would have benefited most would have been the Libdems btw.

Justanotherlurker · 18/12/2018 08:25

The parties that would have benefited most would have been the Libdems btw.

In 2015 which I think everyone is alluding to when the talk about UKIP, lib dems were in 4th

www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32601281

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 18/12/2018 08:29

Leave admitted they committed electoral fraud at a select Committee hearing...dirty money and overspending..

Yes... FRAUD...

Under the law had this been an election it would have to have been run again...

Plus many people were swung by the Boris NHS lies (brexit 'premium' of 180?million a week..
AND the outrageous lie that 70 million Turks were going to SWAMP the UK( feeding into racism /xenophobia narratives) . As Turkey was about to join EU.. This, too, is a LIE... Turkey has tried to have eu membership for 30 years... In order to get this ALL EU27 have to agree... They will not... Re human rights abuses PLUS Greece who will never vote in favour. (bit like euro vision 😂).

We need to have a fair referendum now we know details of Withdrawal with an option to remain.

People who are IGNORING FRAUD are not in favour of democracy.... They just want brexit...

MagnificentSevenHeaven · 18/12/2018 08:46

So stop moaning and grow up.

Hah!! I'm hoping for a No Deal Brexit so we can get the one I voted for.

No moaning from me - it was a statement of fact.

People are fucking stupid! Remainers will think that about me....

mummmy2017 · 18/12/2018 08:48

It was found many remain voters had used postal and then gone to the polls as well..
Tit for tat.

MagnificentSevenHeaven · 18/12/2018 08:51

@Augusta2012

Said Hitler and Stalin and Kim Jong Un and the USSR and the Nazis and.....well. Just basically every evil person in history.

I'll say it verrrrry slowly for you - you let the stupid people elect slightly cleverer people with similar views to represent them, who understand how the system works - it's literally how democracy works in the UK.

Was that OK for you?

Justanotherlurker · 18/12/2018 08:53

Leave admitted they committed electoral fraud at a select Committee hearing...dirty money and overspending..

I wish people would stop parroting this as though it's some kind of Gotcha, it's shit of course, Labour have been fined in GE for electoral fraud the same as the Tories , but lets not pretend that the real big money was not behind Remain, the multinational Banks, Russian Oligarchs like Oleg Derispaska, but some just like to read headlines and appear Superior.

Under the law had this been an election it would have to have been run again...

Again, no it the electoral commision is essentially toothless and just hand down fines, labour and cons have both been fined recently.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 18/12/2018 09:34

All electoral fraud is shit.... Unless it's stamped out you don't get a valid result....

Unless people interpret democracy differently??

Under the law had this been an election it would have to have been run again...

This ^ is still true!!

Justanotherlurker · 18/12/2018 09:49

This ^ is still true!!

It's not as clear cut as you are making out, most of the times when "electoral fraud" has been commuted a fine is handed out and nothing happens, kind of like Labour and Cons being slapped with fines over the past few years.

In theory, people can contest it, doesn't mean it is automatically run again.

Justanotherlurker · 18/12/2018 09:51

And electoral fraud in this instance is overspending, again it doesn't automatically mean that elections are automatically run again, so it isn't as clear cut as you are making out.

Ilikeknitting · 18/12/2018 09:55

I know people who voted to stay, people who wanted to leave, people who didn’t vote and people who have never told me what they voted. I dont know anyone who is scared of a second referendum.

I voted stay, the country democratically voted to leave. We should not have another vote, it’s not best of three, it’s democratic.

Do you really know people who are scared, or are you just reading and believing crap the papers report?

bellinisurge · 18/12/2018 10:03

@Ilikeknitting - I'm scared as a Remain supporter that no Deal would be put on any referendum as an option.
And enough people (not allowed to call them fucking stupid idiots) would vote for it.

Livinthedream1 · 18/12/2018 10:06

So this new vote on the terms of the deal - is that just for the people who voted originally - the ones who wanted their voices heard and thought it important enough to vote? Or is this for all the educated people who didn’t bother to vote first time round due to the fact that the uneducated - sorry leave voters - could never win?

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 18/12/2018 10:20

And IF this is true... It needs to have been investigated...

It was found many remain voters had used postal and then gone to the polls as well..
Tit for tat.

Straw man arguments does nothing for the debate...

Justanotherlurker · 18/12/2018 10:22

And IF this is true... It needs to have been investigated..

What are you on about, it was investigated and they got fined....

Justanotherlurker · 18/12/2018 10:26

Straw man arguments does nothing for the debate...

Exactly why I pulled you up on this

Under the law had this been an election it would have to have been run again...

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 18/12/2018 10:27

Who? What?

One person was convicted?? Unless you know different...

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10212540321097369&id=1663597996

Helmetbymidnight · 18/12/2018 10:28

I voted stay, the country democratically voted to leave. We should not have another vote, it’s not best of three, it’s democratic

Just because you keep saying the word democratic doesn't mean anything else is undemocratic.

Were you up in arms when TMay called another democratic GE. Afterall we had democratically voted in the Tories for another four years. How dare she democratically re-ask the same question?