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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to wonder if a second referendum is a good idea?

695 replies

brizzledrizzle · 15/12/2018 23:00

The Sunday Times are running a headline that the PM's team are planning one. Part of me thinks it's a good idea, part of me thinks that the country has already voted and can't afford another referendum.

OP posts:
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5
JustABetterPlayer · 16/12/2018 08:33

TM will not allow any notion of extensions as that would go directly against her policy of building pressure against MP’s. The ONLY way that rather crap deal will get through Parliament is to have it against a backdrop of no deal.

floribunda18 · 16/12/2018 08:33

could TM extend the deadline for leaving beyond March 29 or is that not allowed?

Yes. Parliament has to vote for it and the EU agree, but I imagine they would.

BrazenFoxed · 16/12/2018 08:33

We had a referendum and Leave won.

But it was based on lies. If I tell you that you can vote for Christmas dinner with all the trimmings round at my house or dinner at Pizza Express I'm sure you'd vote for the former. If I then tell you that there are no trimmings...and it's a microwave meal and can of Vimto for dinner, how disappointed would you feel? But "that's what you voted for so that what you are getting" wouldn't seem entirely fair would it? Wouldn't you want to vote again knowing what you would really be getting? Sure some people love microwave meals and Vimto....but the majority might actually prefer pizza, given the choice again.

JustABetterPlayer · 16/12/2018 08:34

Tenredthings, there will be no real as good as we have now. The EU would not allow that for obvious reasons but that doesn’t mean leaving the EU is without merits.

DisappearingGirl · 16/12/2018 08:38

If we DO have a second referendum (and I'm not sure if we should or not) then I don't think we should include any options that are not actually feasible.

If most of the experts think No Deal would wreck the country as well as endanger life due to medication delays, then I don't think No Deal should be an option. Because it might well win.

luckylavender · 16/12/2018 08:39

Of course it's a good idea, it's totally democratic. The Tories have just have a second election on May and she was voted in after. We all know far more now than we did then, so we could have an informed vote. As for a No Deal - the thought is so terrifying. We're already in a total mess in this country, the amount of jobs that will be lost which means that homelessness will rise to even greater proportions. - so scary.

Russiawithlove · 16/12/2018 08:40

TM will not risk dividing this country anymore by extensions or another vote.

We are leaving in 14 weeks...that is an absolute certainty. The only uncertainty is deal or no deal.

Moussemoose · 16/12/2018 08:43

TM has got that much power though. She is the lame duck PM of a minority government.

Parliament will decide.

Russiawithlove · 16/12/2018 08:43

She was also backed by the majority of her party to stay as long as she delivers the exit.
She cannot not do it now. We are leaving. End of.

Moussemoose · 16/12/2018 08:47

Unfortunately, for TM she got the majority of her MPs vote but they are still a minority government. A minority government with a third of its MPs who may vote against her in some way or abstain.

Parliament will decide.

borntobequiet · 16/12/2018 08:47

I believe the EU would have to sanction an extension. They would probably want to be sure we were serious about a second vote, and not just messing around as we have been doing.
The Government’s own projections show that remaining in the EU is by far the best option for the UK. May’s deal is the least worst of any Leave options, and a No Deal (Leave with no trade agreement so no transition period) potentially catastrophic. Here’s a link outlining the outcomes:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46366162
As a No Deal would without question be very damaging, there’s an argument for not having it on the ballot. Should people be given the opportunity to vote to crash the economy? It seems suicidal. The EU would probably insist on a Remain option for an extension to be granted, for the opposite reason.
Rabid Remainer that I am, and no fan of May, I would be relieved if her deal were passed. We would be worse off, but business says it can work with it, we would have some certainty, the Good Friday Agreement would not be compromised, and we would have left the EU so Leavers should be satisfied. Personally I would prefer a PV with a Remain option, and that to succeed, but it’s risky, and could split the country even more. Sometimes we have to compromise, however difficult that might be.

GirlsBlouse17 · 16/12/2018 08:48

Democracy doesn't stand still. When I voted to leave, my vision of Brexit naively was our leaders being strong and able to negotiate a good deal for the UK. To be honest, the issue of the NI border hadn't been on my radar, and I did not realise how it would become the main obstacle in our negotiations. I admit it should have done. I have read more recently and part of me thinks how for the last 45 years our media and Govts have portrayed such a negative picture of the EU that it has obscured the real benefits of being a part of it. I know there are things wrong with the EU but there is a lot of good in it too and I want to have the chance now to embrace our membership. We need to work with our European partners to survive in this changing world. So I hope and pray for a second referendum so I can vote Remain this time round.

DopeyDazy · 16/12/2018 08:53

yes, more people might get off their arses and vote seeing what a mess we're in and maybe have a more dynamic stay campaign instead of 'call me Dave ' and George presuming it will sell through with stay

madeyemoodysmum · 16/12/2018 08:54

Agree with Augusta

Russiawithlove · 16/12/2018 08:55

They will not throw more money into a campaign. Stay or leave. Secondly there is no time.

Zevitevitchofcwsmas · 16/12/2018 08:55

What we need and what we needed from the the start was cross party consensus to get us the best deal.
What we have had is our mps taking part in a gorilla war to derail brexit.

What on earth is a second ref for? What will it say on the ballot?

How much more time... Will be utterly wasted on more paralysis!

Get on with brexit mps and do the job your supposed to do.

rosy71 · 16/12/2018 08:56

I'm not sure what the options would be in a second referendum. Previous referendums have been a yes/no vote. Is it possible to have a referendum with 3 options? How would it be decided who'd won if no one option got more than 50% of the vote? If the choice was TM's deal or no deal, all those who want neither would be alienated. Likewise TM's deal or remain.

Doesn't an act of parliament have to be passed before a referendum can be called anyway? Surely there's no time for that.

Interestingly, before the 1970s, we had never had any referendums because they were considered undemocratic and only used by dictators. Referendum results can also be ignored by the government because Parliament is Sovereign. I can't see Parliament agreeing to no deal because it is not in the interests of the country. If TM's deal doesn't get through, surely Article 50 should be revoked, at least until the issue has been explored further and the current chaos can be calmed down.

Moussemoose · 16/12/2018 08:57

MPs have a responsibility to do what is best for the country. We are not a direct democracy where MPs have to carry out the direct will of the people.

Parliament is doing its job. It is scrutinising legislation.

TheSultanofPingu · 16/12/2018 08:59

Yes 100%
People were fed lies by the leave campaign and manipulated through social media.

Moussemoose · 16/12/2018 09:00

Some democracies RoI and Switzerland have referenda as part of their constitutions. They are direct democracies.

Germany does not allow referenda because they were abused by the Nazis to gain power.

The U.K. is a representative democracy so referenda shouldn't really be used and are only advisory when they are used.

surferjet · 16/12/2018 09:01

But it was based on lies

What lies exactly?
Can you give me a full account of the lies told by the leave campaign, and how, once we’ve left, nothing that was promised will actually materialize?
I voted to end freedom of movement.
Once we’ve left, will we still have freedom of movement?

MaisyPops · 16/12/2018 09:02

DisappearingGirl
Yes but this is the thing, there's a certain proportion of the British public who think their opinion is equally valid on international affairs as a range of experts across a range of fields and across a range of political persuasions.

It's the new era of British politics: 'we want Britain to be back British and we want parliament to be sovereign except if parliament makes a decision we don't like or judges make rulings we don't like in which case they are enemies of the people and should burn in a pit with other experts, Brexit means Brexit and we've had enough of experts telling us what to do'.
Obviously, not everyone who voted leave has such stupid views, but the ones who regurgitate silly soundbites and talk about how they're sticking one to 'the man' seem to have this silly chip on their shoulder where they don't need no experts and experts are part of a conspiracy of project fear.

PumpkinKitty82 · 16/12/2018 09:03

Yes !
Now the public know exactly what state we will be in and how much this will screw us ,the stupid twats who voted out can see the error of their ways and fix this clusterfuck.
And those wanting a no deal just to spite the EU, grow up! It will fuck us all over and we may never recover !

Redskyandrainbows67 · 16/12/2018 09:03

It was proven leave lied - they were fined for it

MaisyPops · 16/12/2018 09:04

I voted to end freedom of movement.
Once we’ve left, will we still have freedom of movement?
You voted for thay reason.
Other people voted for different reasons.
Some versions of Brexit during the campaign wete for hard Brexits, others for retaining the customs union (which was probably always goinf to involve some free movement but without any say that we have now).

That's the point, regardless of which side someone voted, only one side was a clear proposal as leave was meaning any number of options.

There was always a chance that we could leave the EU whilst having to accept some free movement and rules but without the ability to have a say on them.