To blame Have I Got News For You for the mess we’re currently in?

[BertrandRussell]

None of this would have happened if Johnston, Farage and Rees-Mogg hadn’t been invited on and been allowed to present themselves as “good sports”.

“Bertrand, I’m not sure if you’re coming back to this thread you started, but if so what are your views on the above sentence?”

I think it’s unacceptable. I also think Leavers do not help themselves.

I blame Cameron and Osborne and a very racist and biassed press. They were happy to blame the EU for any of their mistakes and for the consequences of their Austerity agenda. When they arrogantly called the referendum they thought they'd win but also couldn't campaign for remain by saying, 'sorry chaps, it was actually us". The status quo clearly wasn't working for a majority of people in Britain.

Unfortunately again, Corbyn wasn't there to campaign because the EU isn't radical enough for him.

To the Muslim population fears that some leavers seem stressed by.

You know what Farage and JRM both said during the campaign when asked about the lack EU immigrants to do jobs? Don't worry we'll go to the Commonwealth and ask for people from there given our "historic links".

And what does the Commonwealth include? India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th most Muslim populated countries on Earth, numbering over half a billion.

So voting leave will not secure a reprieve from all those pesky Muslims. Oh the irony...

@BertrandRussell
Alright, I’ll bite.

• I don’t want the European Court to overrule the judgements of our own courts
• I want immigration to massively slow down. I also don’t want the right of free movement.
• The EU is expanding and incorporating other member states who won’t/can’t contribute fairly, ex. Turkey
• Fishing rights
• No more funding of EU foreign aid
• Negotiate our own trade agreements
• No European Army

and many more...

Hellomatey001

Is the irony that muslims will be allowed in?
That leavers are happy to have muslims and that it goes someway to disprove that leavers are not in fact all racist?
Or that it proves that some remainers have bought in to a stereotype and are in fact the thick ignorant oiks that they claim others to be?

Yeah foreign aid who wants that?

Can you not hear yourself?

I don't blame them for Brexit but I do blame them for London having 8 years of Boris Johnson as Mayor.

*Yeah foreign aid who wants that?

Can you not hear yourself?*

Your point being...... what?

Foreign aid is what decent societies do.
Like giving to charity is what decent humans do.

Giving foreign aid helps the giver in the end. By helping poorer countries we stimulate their economies and they become consumers.

Foreign aid is good from a humanitarian and economic point of view. This has been proven time and again.

Why is everyone terrified of Muslims? I frankly find middle-aged white men in suits more terrifying than anyone else.

@RoboticMary You're the sort of person that has been so brought in by the propaganda that there is no hope for you. I don't have the energy to dissect all the brain-washing you've been subject to but just for a couple of starters:

• Which specific "European Court" do you take umbrage with and do you have any idea of the role of what I suspect you are referring to - the ECJ?
• Can you tell me when Turkey joined the EU or is expected to?
• What specific fishing rights are you referring to? Are you aware of what the fishing industry has done to UK 'fishing rights'?
• I won't even begin on the 'funding foreign aid' as I'd be here all night. Suffice to say if you think the UK found it's successes by its own hard work and production then you never attended History class in Secondary school.
• And frankly 'Negotiate our own trade deals' shows exactly how uninformed and bigoted you are. You have zero understanding of how global trade works.

In short: You know nothing. And would most likely be convinced that the sky is made of wool if you read an article about it in the Daily Mail.

Haven't RTFT but David Cameron is to blame - and the daily mail

"That's largely government's fault. Skimped on education and press regulation." Yep

It suits them to have an ill informed electorate with many incapable of critical thinking or who won't/can't do their own research.

I also blame Cameron for calling the damn thing in the first place without doing ANY preparation for leave being the result!

"And any woman supporting JRM needs to look into what he really thinks about us and our bodily autonomy. These people are not 'hilarious' - they're dangerous." Not just women but anyone lower than upper mc, but I get you.

I don't agree satire is to blame. It's been around hundreds of years, it's only recently people seem to have become stupid enough to believe it as straight info.

"But really, to support your hypothesis, you would need to demonstrate that everyone who voted Leave (1) watched HIGNFY and (2) was sufficiently influenced by what they saw to be persuaded to vote Leave." Agreed the leave voters I know don't watch such programmes. They barely bother with the news! The types to usually say the news is boring & politics is boring and that politics doesn't really have anything to do with them.

Nope.

Total electorate was 46,500,001.

Total who posted valid ballots was 33,551,983.

Total who posted invalid ballots was 25,359.

Total who either didn't vote at all or got confused by picking between two boxes 12,948,018.

That's 27.85% of the entire electorate.

More than a quarter.

Any one of that 27.85% who's complaining now has no right.

Where were you? Where were you?

It's immigration from outside the EU that is the problem for me, once in they can go anywhere. Integration and multiculturalism have failed outside of major cities where a younger cosmopolitan type do integrate well. You can see this in census data. None of it was voted for and now people are angry about it. Same all over Europe, another major country will elect a nationalist govt soon and they will leave too.

@elonmusk, may I ask which immigrants from outside the EU you are referring to? Are your u suggesting refugees have come on mass into the UK via the EU? The UK have taken in so very few refugees from the refugee crisis of recent years.

The UK have non Eu immigrants who come in on visas, but this is nothing to do with the EU. You seem confused.

There are multiple factors for Brexit. Cameron’s idiocy for allowing a simple majority referendum on a huge constitutional change.

Years of anti EU propaganda in the right wing press that dominates our media.

Leave campaigns lies and slogans.

I will also grant the BBC generally gave far too much air time to very right wing anti EU buffoons and dodgy lobby groups whilst not interviewing more honest voices.

Not RTFT but I just can’t forgive Corbyn for not leading Labour to be an effective opposition at this time.
This is basically a national emergency unfolding and the Tories are in a complete mess, but they are made look massively on the ball and credible next to the shambolic Labour Party under Corbyn. I seriously don’t feel I have anyone to vote for.
It is dreadful. corbyn would rather let the cards fall where they may, rather than support any of the moderate MPs in Labour who are campaigning for a people’s vote.

@elonmusk, apologies I did not read through the thread in its entirety so see you did go on to acknowledge increase in non EU immigration is not to do with the EU.

@HandinGove, I had been thinking same as u re Corbyn but I have been reading some articles who are making a compelling argument that he is biding his time to come out for a second referendum for strategic reasons. It’s possible though acknowledge he was anti EU for many years.

Yanis Varoufakis, the Greek finance minister at the time of their debt crisis is a fierce critic of EU. Yet he isn’t calling for the end of the EU. He actually is putting himself up as a candidate as a MEP. He calls for reform for EU and believes as UK has been a member for over 40 years to leave is madness. Better to be part of it and reform within.

This is not addressing the OP’s question but I have just been listening to Professor Michael Duggan again. He is a professor in EU constitutional law and knows his onions.

He was saying as Michael Heseltine said yesterday too in an Channel 4 interview that the main players in this world are members of powerful trading blocs. The UK was at the centre of a powerful bloc as a member of the EU. The UK have thrown away power and influence by voting to leave the EU. He said the Leave campaigners swindled voters to believe the UK could defy laws of international trade and relations and make it on its own without being part of a big trading bloc.

For those who voted Leave as sovereignty was an important issue for them you could argue our sovereignty has been diminished by walking away from influence and power. Also of course many areas UK had full sovereignty.

"Fast approaching the 'humans' on the Arc in the Wall-E film, bloated blobs of nonthinking nothingness."

Yes to this!

I don't give a fig about people's religions but I do worry about cultural beliefs - FGM, women's rights, abortion rights etc when talking about immigration. However, with internet and tv, it's now extremely easy to live without integrating (hardly) at all. Although one would hope that their children and grandchildren will integrate more by going to school, work etc. I realise that you can also say the same about some sectors of "British born" society that also stay very insulated in their little corner of the world and don't look outward.

Professor Duggan and co are right. UK only has significance as a constantly carping and whinging member of the EU. Once UK 'regains sovereignty' of its cold and damp little islands off the coast of Europe, who's going to be listening? But we'll be able to hear the rest of the world laughing at us.

Vladimrs

Your comments are ridiculous. You might fear white men in suits (of which the EU has many) more than mulsims, but most people do not. Like I say, you may be fine with Islam and the culture that comes with it but perhaps you are suitably modest in your dress etc. Perhaps you would prefer to live somewhere like Saudi Arabia ? I must admit that i find people like you quite mystifying in your dismissal of European and British achievements. Do you think James Young Simpson stole his success from Africans or something ? You're bonkers.

Integration is not working, it is a bit silly that non EU migration might lead to the break up of the EU but I believe that's what's behind the rise of the right across the continent. As I pointed out many times but no one seems to directly address, unless you either disagree that Islam being the dominant culture in a European country would be bad, or the demographics are wrong and we should admit as many people of any persuasion as want to come and they will all just integrate, and if they don't it's the racist hosts fault who should shut about Halal.

Although not the EUs fault it's perceived as being for some reason. The whole project is seen as something people had no say in. A lot of people for some reason seem to hate their countries but others are proud of them and want thrir culture to survive the next 2 or 3 centuries. You might dismiss such concern as silly, but given the failure of integration what will happen when a few million people of a markedly different culture dominate a region, might they want a political system of their choosing ? Would you deny them it ?

The UK will not be the last to leave, I feel the writing is on the wall. Or maybe I am just old and miserable