To think free family/ grandparent childcare should be banned?

[KnightlyMyMan]

This is a topic I keep seeing pop up and I can see both sides so wanted to throw it up for discussion.

Reasons I agree;

• It’s a HUGE and unfair financial advantage for those of us who have unpaid/ free childcare over those who don’t! It’s basically luck of the draw over whether you get to avoid £700-£900 full time nursery fees per child! In every other area of life it seems society is making it less acceptable to discriminate due to family financial status (uni funding - blind interviews) but ‘unpaid internships’ and ‘free childcare’ are two big remaining issues!

• It takes away jobs and is detrimental to the economy. (If all the children currently being looked after by family were in nursery more money would be spent, contributing to the economy, and more staff would be needed, creating jobs.)

But equally, as someone who does have free grandparent childcare lined up - of course I want to save (huge amounts) of cash and I trust my parents implicitly, no one would care for my kids better! Why should I give my children to strangers (even professionally trained ones) or fork out money I don’t need to?

The topic of childcare came up at work the other day and there was a definite ‘bloody alright for some’ attitude from those colleagues paying for childcare. It seems to be a subject that divides people very strongly!

OP, having read all your messages to try and understand why you've posted this bizarre thread, I think what it boils down to is that you know you have an unfair advantage over some other people that is reasonably intractable in nature, but don't like it when others point that out. Is that basically it?

Enjoy your free childcare and do the charitable thing and nod sympathetically when your less fortunate colleagues moan about how difficult it is without. Kindness costs nothing (and neither does Granny Daycare! ).

Dontaskmyname your mother isn’t allowed in the country to visit? That’s hardly DH family’s fault

‘Omg why don’t we just go full communism’

^ I don’t personally want this as DP and I are high earners - but 80% of MN posts I read seem to end up basically suggesting we should be under a communism regime where everyone gets/has- exactly the same.

"Can I have little Johnny and Katie at the weekend, DD? I'd love to do some baking with them."
"No, sorry, mum, can't risk people thinking that you're looking after them, it's against the law"

Yep, seems reasonable.

@FrancisCrawford

what about SAHP?

By your logic it is unfair they can afford to stay at home and they are depriving nursery workers of jobs

I'm actually a SAHP because we can't afford nursery! 2 DC of nursery age, we would lose money. And no grandparents to help.
Not the point of the thread but wanted to point out that not everyone who is a SAHP is so because they are well off! We definitely aren't.

To be honest, judging by the threads that frequently appear on MN, it sounds to me like free grandparent childcare is not without its pitfalls and difficulties anyway. At least when you pay someone to provide childcare it’s on mutually agreed terms.

I love my parents but there’s no way I’d want them to provide long term childcare. I’d far far rather pay a professional with experience and early years training!

I don't even know where to start with this!

Life is unfair!

I have had to pay £1000's in childcare costs over the years. Some of my friends haven't paid a penny. Do I begrudge them? No.

On the flip side I lived with my grandparents Monday to Friday for most of my childhood due to my Mum's illness (and my dad working). I'd have ended up in care presumably if they had been banned from looking after me.

What? Either a wind up or you are not very bright.

There are some known benefits to minimising the time spent in a nursery environment for very young children.
It is beneficial for the next generation to have time in nursery and time with family if they are lucky enough to have access to both.

If you have no other option than full time nursery then you have no other option.
But why should families be forced into poverty and children forced into a 40-50 hour week in childcare facility if they don’t need to be?

Bonkers.

I think the suggestion of banning grandparent child care actually goes a step further than communism even . Totalitarian state?

Life isn’t fair
I mean, what about a financial payout from the government depending on the nature of your parents’ illnesses/deaths. What if you have to take them to hospital for long drawn out illnesses as opposed to them suddenly dying. Should the person whose parents need the appointments get a payout? It’s crazy. You cannot equalise people. What if two kids have to learn simultaneous equations for homework and one mum/dad know how to help them and the other mum/dad can’t do it. Should there be a payout thereto the kid whose parents can’t help? Or should the parents get banned from helping with homework? That’s jail for you Mrs Smith if you help Johnny with his simultaneous equations. In the name of all Kids having everything equal.

We cannot equalise everything. We probably just need to do the best we can and behave decently towards other people. I must go I think the thought police are at the door coming to arrest me as my mum babysat for an hour yesterday.

People grumble op. It's a human trait.

Why has this affected you to this extent? Do you feel guilty? If so it's really unnecessary.

Brush it off. And if you find grumbling irritating resolve not to do it yourself.

Personally I share grumbles with friends but then have a laugh at myself too.

This is the most pathetic and pointless thread I've ever read. Why don't we all just grow wings and fly to work instead of driving? Impossible, pointless so why the fuck are we discussing this?

Precisely.

OP perhaps you could donate half of what you would in childcare to a local sireatart centre or other child welfare charity

Tbh OP it's just beginning to sound like a stealth boast.
DH and I earn LOTS of money and we don't have to spend any of it on childcare. Golly we have so much disposable income I often wonder what to spend it on, life is so hard (twinkly laugh)

I can't see how banning free family childcare would mean more jobs for nursery workers. I'm sure a lot of mothers would just decide to stay at home instead f paying all thier wages on childcare.

I really, really dislike the impulse to ban things as a reflex reaction.

People have different circumstances, and yes, some are luckier than others. The State should step in to help those in more disadvantaged situations (e.g. by subsidinging child care). But NOT by banning things that other people benefit from without harming anyone else.

An analogous argument would be: "People who can afford to are able to buy fresh fruits and vegetables, which makes them healthier and happier than people who can't afford them. This is unfair. So we should ban fresh fruits and vegetables".

Worth remembering also op that MN is extremely left wing. The support for Corbyn on here at the last general election was absolutely overwhelmingly massive. And yet he didn’t win so MN was not a good representation of the UK population.

What a silly suggestion. I’m lucky that my MIL doesn’t work and my mums just retired plus my husband has a day off during the week - so they have a day each and I work 3 days. My MIL and mum want to do it and love their days with my DS. I’m lucky in that respect which I know as lots of my friends have to pay for full time childcare. We wouldn’t be able to afford 3 days childcare even so it does work both ways - what would I do in that situation? As then I have to not work and wouldn’t manage to pay all our bills in my husbands income alone.
But yeah, take that all away from us because “it’s not fair.” Sounds like you should live in a communist country OP

I guess the point is that if nobody had free childcare employers would be forced to offer more in the way of childcare (or higher salaries) to get people into jobs. Not sure you can actually ban it.

More and more London employers are having to offer free travel as rents/house prices in the centre and rail fares from the suburbs continue to rise, so the precedent is there.

Unpaid internships should be banned though! Minimum wage legislation exists for a reason.

Tbh OP it's just beginning to sound like a stealth boast.

As soon as I saw the OP say that her and her partner are both high earners I thought exactly the same

Thanks for telling us OP that you’ve got lots of money AND free childcare, that’s really cheered a lot of us up this morning and we’re really happy for you

Neither my DH or I have/had parents able to provide any childcare.
But it never occurred to me to resent those who do.
Because if they also didn’t have anyone, it wouldn’t help me or change my situation.
It’s like a reverse shadenfreude.

As for banning it. I know we are meant to be coming out of Europe, but I don’t think that means we’re turning into North Korea with the state determining our personal and family relationships.......

As a single parent, I think we should ban 2 parent families. Just think of the advantage of having 2 salaries or a sahp that 2 parent families have. It's just not fair.