To think free family/ grandparent childcare should be banned?

[KnightlyMyMan]

This is a topic I keep seeing pop up and I can see both sides so wanted to throw it up for discussion.

Reasons I agree;

• It’s a HUGE and unfair financial advantage for those of us who have unpaid/ free childcare over those who don’t! It’s basically luck of the draw over whether you get to avoid £700-£900 full time nursery fees per child! In every other area of life it seems society is making it less acceptable to discriminate due to family financial status (uni funding - blind interviews) but ‘unpaid internships’ and ‘free childcare’ are two big remaining issues!

• It takes away jobs and is detrimental to the economy. (If all the children currently being looked after by family were in nursery more money would be spent, contributing to the economy, and more staff would be needed, creating jobs.)

But equally, as someone who does have free grandparent childcare lined up - of course I want to save (huge amounts) of cash and I trust my parents implicitly, no one would care for my kids better! Why should I give my children to strangers (even professionally trained ones) or fork out money I don’t need to?

The topic of childcare came up at work the other day and there was a definite ‘bloody alright for some’ attitude from those colleagues paying for childcare. It seems to be a subject that divides people very strongly!

I have never heard this argument. Because it’s fucking stupid.

OP are you aware that 99%+ of people in this country have more than the average number of legs? This is an injustice that I'd like to see addressed

its worth recognising the discrepancy and offering state subsidised childcare as they do in other countries and us all paying a bit more tax. Share the childcare load. You can then chose to use the childcare, stay home or use family free of individual financial constraints.

PurpleDaisies - that’s exactly what I’m saying I think would be a marvellous idea. All parents, young, old, rich, poor, black, white, green ... have a basic understanding of what it is you are required to do before allowed to raise a human. The money that would be saved in A & E visits would pay for the course tenfold.

I see the issue to are trying to address and I understand that the original suggestion of banning free grandparent childcare was not mean seriously but was intended to stimulate conversation.

in reality paid childcare really only exists for the relatively wealthy because it is so very expensive. when you normally earn £15+ per hour then paying £5-8 per hour for childcare hurts but is sensible. When your earning power is only £8 per hour anyway it is ridiculous to use a nursery - you end up paying more than you earn. some childminders are cheap enough to make it just about worthwhile to work.

alternative:

how about a means-tested grant of £143 per week (I started out typing £200 that is £5*40 but it would be silly for it to be more than maternity pay) for each child under the age of 3 and £50 pw for each child aged between 3 and 10 (for wraparound before and after the 30 hours of education) which is directed according to how the child is cared for to allow parents to work, if both parents are working at least 40h pw. it can be used for nursery/childminders fees if that's the right solution for you, or it can be kept by one parent if being SAHP is right for the family (though means-testing should kick in to reduce/remove it if there is another parent on the scene earning plenty enough to support a sahp). if free family childcare from grandparents is used then the grant can be directed to the family members doing the childcare if they have a low income themselves but it is reduced/removed if they have higher means themselves.

OR - you could require everyone to declare all the hours of free help they get from friends and family - not just childcare, also carpentry plumbing and homes maintenance services etc etc. we then evaluate that help as if it was income, and tax those who get lots and give tax credits to those who get less - along with a system of allowances so that families with a larger number of kids or a disabled parent have a higher threshold before anything is taxed. combined with this we have a system where the retired are assumed (if healthy) to have 25 hours a week worth of "effort" they are capable of offering to their families or wider society. if they help their family with childcare or volunteer for charities etc then that's great. if they spend their whole time playing golf or bridge or whatever then they get to pay an additional tax towards supporting the rest of society that does believe in everyone pulling their weight.

Also £700-£900 full time nursery fees per child 😂😂 we pay £550 for two days!

5five, while it’s a good idea, it’s not the case now. Grandparents shouldn’t have to meet a higher standard than parents to look after children.

If I hadn't had both sets of DS's grandparents helping with childcare I wouldn't have been able to go back to work after having him as paid childcare would have left me worse off than being on benefits. My ex DH had been diagnosed out of the blue a month before DS was born with MS, he couldn't carry on working & until DS was 2 wasn't capable of looking after him due to his illness. Before his diagnosis I had planned on taking a career break until my DS started school while he worked full time, instead I went back to work part time & cared for him & my son the rest of the time. Would you have preferred me to have given up work, stopped paying our mortgage & claimed benefits? I have never seen such a pointless question as yours, every parent has the right to choose who cares for their child, if they choose to use family, what right do you have to criticise that decision? What will your next question be, should families be banned from caring for elderly relatives & being put in a home be made compulsory?

The funniest part of your OP was the total miscalculation of full time nursery fees. Mine would be £1300 a month if my mum didn’t help us out. In which case it would actually be more cost effective for me to stay home.

So a ‘ban’ would just force women who want to go back to work to be SAHP. Not very free or equal.

Riiight.

What a clown

PurpleDaisies - I disagree on the basis that expectations have changed so much since the 70/80’s and there is more information available and it should be utilised. The first three years are the most important it simply cannot be wasted even unintentionally if we want educational equality

Qualified grandparents is actually the perfect storm, combination of love, investment and knowledge it would be the ideal start in life if an educated Mum or dad aren’t available

So it is compulsory now for parents to complete training on child development and paediatric first aid?

By your logic, stay at home parents should be licensed.

Where do you keep seeing it pop up? Because I literally never have.

Have literally never heard of stigma surrounding free childcare or calls for it to be banned.

You e got this all wrong. The stigma should be (and generally is) related to childcare costs.

Completely confused by this.

Lliod, just read your post on page four. My situation was very similar to yours. I realise we were fortunate but like your family, the grandparents liked doing it and we were good to them later on (no more than we should have been, they'd been good parents and grandparents and deserved it).

I don't get the resentment against those who get a bit of free help. Wouldn't everyone grab it if available?

There are plenty of other people who contribute to the economy, work force, and employ someone to care for their children, if they don't have family nearby and available. It all balances out in the end.

Thinking about this, I want to be able to help mine (if I have any grands), as much as possible. Life is stressful enough without worrying about child care, and child care is the most important issue.

That makes no sense - unless you’re going to make it compulsory for all kids to be educated in their first three years.

Surely a better balance would be to stop being so educational focussed on toddlers in nursery and let nurseries and childminders just focus on fun with them?

I say good luck to those who get free childcare from grandparents, so long as:

-they acknowledge their privilege (ie they don't bang on about how other people who are short of cash are 'clearly not managing their cash properly'because we're coping perfectly well on the same salary thanks very much' - hate this! )
-grandparents are genuinely willing and not made to feel like they have to pitch in cos their poor offspring can't cope otherwise

I'm certain there are grandparents in the latter camp and I feel very sorry for them indeed. I'd never pressure my parents into giving childcare, I only ever ask if DH has hospital appointments to attend or similarly extenuating circumstances.

ExFury - all education for under 3’s is play based exactly the same as childminders within a nursery setting. That’s how children learn through fun. The only educational part is the recording that the facilitators have to do.

My grandparents looked after my siblings and I while my parents worked, and it was wonderful. We were so close to them and they adored us, enjoyed looking after us. From a child’s perspective, it’s amazing to have involved grandparents and I can’t imagine why anyone would want to deprive children of something so enriching

PurpleDaisies - they don’t need to be licenced I’m not suggesting there’s a pass or fail .... but compulsory education before parenthood, yes I’m all for that. Would also allow earlier intervention which would prevent lives being ruined before the system catches up.

Why do you ponder such things?

Would also allow earlier intervention which would prevent lives being ruined before the system catches up.

How? Unless you’re proposing inspecting parents to see how good a job they’re doing.

Shall we ban people from looking after their elderly parents too so care homes can make more money?

On that basis you should argue that everyone gets the same salary and that stay at home parents should be banned too. You can't ban me (a gm) from spending time with members of my family!

If we're talking about life being fair I'd like to ban people from seeing their mums. My mum died when I was young and I have always felt sad when I see mums and daughters out shopping. Ban it! 😂😂😂