To think free family/ grandparent childcare should be banned?

[KnightlyMyMan]

This is a topic I keep seeing pop up and I can see both sides so wanted to throw it up for discussion.

Reasons I agree;

• It’s a HUGE and unfair financial advantage for those of us who have unpaid/ free childcare over those who don’t! It’s basically luck of the draw over whether you get to avoid £700-£900 full time nursery fees per child! In every other area of life it seems society is making it less acceptable to discriminate due to family financial status (uni funding - blind interviews) but ‘unpaid internships’ and ‘free childcare’ are two big remaining issues!

• It takes away jobs and is detrimental to the economy. (If all the children currently being looked after by family were in nursery more money would be spent, contributing to the economy, and more staff would be needed, creating jobs.)

But equally, as someone who does have free grandparent childcare lined up - of course I want to save (huge amounts) of cash and I trust my parents implicitly, no one would care for my kids better! Why should I give my children to strangers (even professionally trained ones) or fork out money I don’t need to?

The topic of childcare came up at work the other day and there was a definite ‘bloody alright for some’ attitude from those colleagues paying for childcare. It seems to be a subject that divides people very strongly!

@KnightlyMyMan

I think my title is fair. Everytime I read ‘it’s so unfair’ comments I do think 🙄 ‘what do you expect them to do- ban it?’

Why are you so hot and heavy for banning things, or see that as the only possible solution? There are more grown-up and subtle ways of dealing with things, life is not a simplistic scaled up primary school classroom. Strange that your first thought of a solution is to appeal to some higher authority who would simply 'ban' things and the populace would be bound to that like obedient sheep. Bizarre.

My kids have no grandparents. But we grow our own vegetables and I cut the whole family’s hair. Some people probably can’t do those things, so should they be banned?

The UK may not be a very family friendly country in a lot of ways, but I suspect the government wants people to have children to fund the growing elderly population. There are a number of policies to encourage children, such as:

1. maternity leave
2. child benefit
3. free education
4. free healthcare for children
5. working tax credits

The government is also keen to get women out to work, to help fund the elderly - they will want parents to use grandparents for free childcare, especially if they cannot afford to pay for childcare due to low earnings, if it means more women can go out to work! The government is not going to ban grandparents from looking after the children any time soon!

As for communist countries; we went to China 5 years ago, and our tour guide told us it was the norm for adults, to leave the countryside to go to work in the cities to earn more money (as the rural Chinese are very poor). Once they have children, due to a lack of childcare in the cities, they send their children back to live with their grandparents, as free childcare - and often the parents can only afford to go back home and see their children once a year at Chinese New Year. The children end up closer to their grandparents than their parents.

Yeah whats worse then a carer who actually loves that child looking after them

Are you smoking funny cigarettes op?!!!
I say this as someone who has not had the advantage of free childcare (as my children grandparents are too busy saving the other siblings £1000's in childcare). But its how it is, i certainly don't begrudge anyone being fortunate enough in that position.

Its ok though op with no hope of retiring we won't be able to do it for our kids so it will soon die out and even low workers and shift workers will have to find the funds to pay for childcare. Keep them worker bees working ay.

What about elderly care or disabled care, shall we ban family members doing that too? They should be forced into the social system and have 5 minute drop ins from paid staff to do all their needs, thats better then someone who loves and gives a shit.

Um wow! What an odd question. I agree with the many other posters - why would you ban that, surely you’d look to enable choice and make childcare free.

It would be lovely if everyone could have a nice house, car & belongings, have a job with good hours and money, be able to afford to have children & send them to nursery etc. The sad fact is, we can’t. There are homeless people so should we all move to the streets?

Don’t try to bring everyone down to the bottom, consider instead how to bring everyone up to the better standard of living.

To the person that couldn’t understand why someone said it would benefit the wealthy - they meant that if a law were brought in like that, the wealthy would be the only ones that could actually afford childcare and therefore would be the only ones to be able to afford to have children.

We strive to give everyone equal opportunities (same free schooling offered, same free health services, benefits for lower earners) - I don’t see how taking away free childcare from family could possibly help this?

No it shouldn't be banned but it does feel massively unfair.

I know a woman whose mother arrives every single morning to do the school run, does every single pick up and will stay at their house looking after her gd until mum arrives home at any time she wants. She also does every single day in the school holidays. Mum is left totally free to pursue her career with no obstacles plus none of the money she makes has to go on childcare...it's hers to spend as she pleases.

Some people are very lucky. I haven't worked for ten years....one of my dc has minor sn and if i worked my dc would have to spend every school holiday in child care and I really don't want that.

While I see what you're trying to get at OP I'm in a slightly different position. I work shifts, no local nursery will accommodate them, so luckily my mother has stepped in. I cleared this before we had children as I understand it's a huge commitment. I also pay her for it. Am I therefore denying a nursery worker a wage? Admittedly it's not the going rate and I appreciate I'm in a fortunate position. However, it means I cannot ask for any babysitting duties if I were to go on a night out and I worry it's taking the joy out of being the fun grandparent when you're faced with the toil of napoy changes and school runs in the rain!

Instead of banning grand parental care, why not give working families more support? We’re in France, where crèches are available for the children of working parents at very low cost. «School» starts age 2-3yrs, 0830 to 1645 four days a week, free to all. Lunchtime, pre school and after school provision is provided at a very low means tested cost.

The catch? We pay a lot of taxes to provide these services to all: you’ll have seen the gilets jaunes complaining about that recently...

But from a working family POV the provision of state funded childcare / education is really really good.

Have not read the whole thread, so sorry if this point has been made already, but I don't think it is correct to say that nothing can be done about it, it can, the situation could be rectified by affordable, public childcare provisions

there would still be a difference between those who have free child-care and those who don't, but not as great as today and would therefore roust in less of a disadvantage

Sorry OP, this is up there with the most stupid post I've ever read.

Anyone who complains about the unfairness of someone else having free childcare (provided by grandparents or anyone, really) is being ridiculous. Of course life isn't fair, in so very many ways! Why expect "fairness" in this one particular area of life?

I'd avoid discussing my childcare arrangements with colleagues. It doesn't seem to be any of their business, anyway. If it somehow came up and someone made grumpy or sarcastic comments ("must be nice", etc.), I'd do my best to ignore them. They're probably too stupid to bother arguing with, honestly.

I look after my grandkids willingly.
I work full time, but on permanent night shift so I can collect them from school and look after them until their parents arrive home from work.
Why on earth should they spend their hard earned money on childcare?
Money is tight enough when you have growing kids, which is why I look after mine, so they have some spare money to pay their bills and treat the kids to a holiday and activities without worrying.
Ban loving grandparents/ family from doing childcare? I've never heard so much rubbish!

This is such a weird, negative and unhelpful argument. If you're concerned about social and financial inequality (reasonable and as we all should be), why not argue for state subsidised, affordable childcare - so it's not financially crippling as it is presently and something that's actually achievable - rather than make the bizarre and unpleasant suggestion of banning family looking after their children?

This may well be the stupidest comment I have ever seen on the internet!

Ha! Never heard anyone complain about other people’s family helping our. Ridiculous

All my family live 250 miles away so no help whatsoever and yes that is unreasonable. I managed to get a couple of hours work a week by job sharing with another mum from my dds school and minding each others kids while the other works. Not ideal as I get paid £20 a week and am tied 5 days due to the commitment but I do what I have to! I had to miss a shift yesterday as my dcs are all sick so couldn't take them to her and expose her dcs would have been really handy to have my mum about to have the kids for 1 hour while I worked. Yes I'm jealous sometimes my friends can have nights out with their partners and free childcare do I begrudge them it or would I want it taking away from them? If course not!!

I look after my granddaughter because I offered so my daughter could go back to work, I was a SAHM & sunk into depression as my DH went to work but I had no friends or family to help me out in everyday life let alone to offer childcare, there is no way my DD is ever going to feel that way! I adore my GD & have her twice a week we go to playgroups & have fun, plus it takes the financial burden off my DD too as she is a single parent, I work 3 days a week in my DH business so the hours suit me!

Just. No.

We can look at things that way if we choose and live through the saying ....

Life is hard and then you die

Or we could just accept our lot and enjoy what we have without the Green Eyed Monster rearing it’s head the whole time.

Money brings out so much jealousy and comparison in people which ultimately is what this is all about.

If we all just focused on making the best of our lives without constantly comparing what we have and we don’t we would be a whole lot more happy with our lot!

We are lucky enough to have childcare from our family.. However we will never inherit a property or a large windfall of money.. But I would never think that it should be banned to receive property or cash from relatives..swings and roundabouts as they say

You are being very unreasonable.

You say it isn’t fair. Fair doesn’t mean equal. Fair doesn’t mean everyone should get exactly the same. That’s like a toddler having a tantrum.

I’ll tell you the same thing I told my daughter when she was 2. She understood so you should too.
Imagine you’ve just had a HUGE Sunday roast with starters and pudding. You’re absolutely poddered. You have loads of food in your fridge complete with several left overs. You decide to go for a walk. You take 6 apples with you just in case you get hungry. You come across another person in the woods. This person hasn’t eaten today and doesn’t have any food. They are very down on their luck and have no money. You’re still absolutely full. You have the 6 apples. As well as a fridge full of food. You decide to share the apples. Equal would be having 3 apples each. But FAIRNESS would be giving the person in the woods ALL the apples. Because you are full and have loads of food. Moral of the story...being fair and being equal are two completely different things. Sometimes they have the same outcome. But mostly not.

I would be absolutely horrified if my family or friends tried to pay me for looking after their children. Equally my parents who occasionally look after my daughter would be mortified.

I totally agree Suze1621

I don’t think there’s stigma. I think that it’s good to acknowledge that you’re lucky if you have it and that certain things are harder if you don’t. That’s all really.

Obviously this is all hypothetical. I don’t know why people are acting like you’re petitioning parliament to round up grandparents.

To give it a different spin. Would (hypothetically) banning grandparent childcare release some grandparents from an onerous duty. I know at least three grandparents who have been strong armed into full-time childcare. Not that they mind having their grandkids, but Five days a week all day is a lot to ask somebody who should be enjoying their retirement.

What a ridiculous post!! You basically want to ban families supporting each other and providing much needed help. Lots of parents wouldn’t be able to afford to work if they had to pay nursery fees. Everybody’s circumstances are different and to say this should be banned because it’s unfair to those who pay for childcare is a load of rubbish!! I pay for childcare because my parents aren’t able to look after my children but I hadn’t even thought about it being unfair that other people’s parents can provide childcare. Each family is different - that’s life and it’s not always fair!